[Osmf-talk] Commitment to open communication channels

[Kathleen Lu]

Mario - Perhaps the daily digest can help with volume management?


Martin,
Like I said, it's not about your intent (and I do not attribute ill intent
by you) but rather the *effect* of such framing, which as Michal pointed
out, is to push those who view the situation differently away from the
space.
I can certainly *recall* instances of recent communications on this
listserv that I thought were uncalled for (whether you would characterize
them as abusive is an open question) but how would I answer your question
and describe them without identifying (and by implication, calling out) the
person(s) who made them?
And while toxicity cannot be completely prevented, that is a world of
difference from not trying, and the talk list's default is to not try
(except for the occasional plea for civility). Unlike other listservs I've
been on (including ones dedicated to open source!) as far as I know no one
has ever been suspended from the listserv or placed on moderated status.
I challenge the assumption that in order for a platform to be "open" it
must also be completely unmoderated and tolerant of toxicity. If that is
the case, then "openness" would be a detriment rather than a virtue.
-Kathleen


On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 4:09 PM Martin Koppenhoefer <dieterdreist at gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> > On 18. Aug 2020, at 20:45, Kathleen Lu <kathleen.lu at mapbox.com> wrote:
> >
> > Martin, don't you think it would only increase the toxicity on this list
> for people to start calling out by name other people that they think are
> toxic or abusive? And if people already don't feel safe on this list, why
> in the world would they feel safe publicly calling out others' behaviors? I
> am not saying this is your intent, but your challenge could serve as a
> self-fulfilling prophecy: Tell people that they will not be believed, and
> they will be unlikely to speak up, and then you'll have your "proof" that
> there is no toxicity.
>
>
> I didn’t mean to make you call out other people publicly, instead I rather
> thought you would not find a single case in recent times, but just in case
> there was something I would not remember I put the 2 in there.
>
> To be honest, I have been personally attacked some years ago (against me
> as a person), once, and I can understand it can be hurtful, I did not want
> to make a call to tolerate such behavior, but realistically it cannot be
> completely prevented in open channels, and it does not happen frequently,
> indeed I have the impression it happens more seldom than 10 years ago,
> which could be read as an encouraging sign of a maturing environment.
>
> Cheers Martin
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