[Osmf-talk] difficult communication with HOT (and Esri, and YouthMappers)

Wed Dec 9 22:28:54 UTC 2020

Have you considered that you have been a bit overly aggressive with the volume and tenor of your changeset comments?
I 100% agree that YouthMappers (not HOT) should be more available, and support student clubs in their network, with clear documentation and help in working in open communities like ours.
My guess is that a more cooperative approach on all sides would lead to better results.

Mikel

On Wednesday, December 9, 2020, 4:33 PM, Mario Frasca <mario at anche.no> wrote:

dear all, anything we can do to make HOT mention names when they give answers?

it's all "an organization", "a group", always this impossible to get any further …

the first time I had this, it was with HOT Project 4917, which had been left open and abandoned, on an area that could use mapping.

on 2019-02-16 I write to OSM/HOT user PANAMA Manuel Quintero

Hola buenos días señor Manuel. encuentro su nombre a través de su perfil hotosm (https://tasks.hotosm.org/user/PANAMA%20Manuel%20Quintero), a que he llegado siguiendo unas ediciones de datos OSM en este área (https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/8.30246/-82.82552&layers=ND), parte del objetivo del proyecto HOTOSM 4917. en esa zona he notado puntos sin tag, áreas con tag ‘landuse’ y ‘natural’ en conflicto, áreas sobrepuestas, parcial o completamente, áreas con tag incompleto, errada clasificación de vías (residencial en zona rural), además, si el objetivo del proyecto 4917 incluye el mapear edificios, faltan los edificios! o sea, una cantidad de errores que me parecen importantes y cuya solución me parece complicada. juntos con otros pocos usuarios estamos creando una comunidad de maperos OSM panameños o de otra manera interesados en Panamá. quiere juntarse, presentar ahí el proyecto 4917, comunicarse con el grupo? cordial saludo, Mario Frasca https://t.me/joinchat/CLndmwoptpVZhe6davpW7Q

 obtuve respuesta, el día mismo: 

Seguro que si… excelente iniciativa. En lo que pueda ser util a la orden.

Saludos Manuel Quintero

 le pasé el enlace al grupo para charlar, y se unió el mes siguiente, 2019-03-19 (https://t.me/Comunidad_OSM_Panama/1636), pero con otra petición, para examinar la posibilidad de abrir otro proyecto HOT en Panamá. 

  La Alcaldia de Panama en conmemoración de los 500 años desea realizar un mapathon. Nos reuniremos en Esri Panamá el dia jueves 21 de marzo a las 2:00pm.. nos gustaría contar con la participación de 1 o 2 miembros de esta gran comunidad OSM Panama      Contaremos tambien con la Participación de la Presidenta del Capítulo de Youthmappers Universidad de Panamá :+1: 
 (please note the absence of names.)

to which I did participate, for which I volunteered a summary of the meeting (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Panamá/Reunión_2019-03-21) where I did mention names, and provided my recommendations, and never heard from them again.

The area of Guna Nega, never mentioned, had already been chosen at the time of the meeting (https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/68355291; https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/68343853) and peaked in October that year, and I did not associate with the meeting, and is only mentioned in our Wiki in a recent diary page of mine (https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/mariotomo/diary/395025).

back to project 4917, it continued there attracting edits of beginners armchair mappers, and nobody was reviewing it, and Panama is a small country with few mappers, the area was not according to any of us high priority.

so in early September 2019 I write on the comments tab of the 4917 project, https://tasks.hotosm.org/projects/4917, and since nobody was answering in public, I escalate to the OSM account BGirardot, who created the project for PANAMA Manuel Quintero,

Hi BGirardot, you are marked as project manager for 4917. I wish to have some information about that. it seems to be dead, nobody reviewing, but still from time to time attracting low quality edits to the area. can anything be done about it? also a transparent project auditing would be very appreciated by Panamanian mappers who live in the area and never have been aware of the project while it was being set up. preferably, in a openstreetmap.org/wiki page linked to the wiki/Panama page. best regard, Mario Frasca

the prompt reply:

I archived the project.

It was requested by an OSM Panama group.

Regards, Blake

 this wasn't very informative, and not focusing on evaluation and prevention, 

Hi Blake, thank you for the quick action.

is there any chance to see the project evaluated in any way? possibly: to include in the HOT protocols, some sort of socialization of the activity-to-be-started with the rest of the affected country? after all, we have a wiki page on openstreetmap, and it’s not been used in this case.

that’s for the future, and not limited to Panama,

for this one: thank you and best regards,

Mario Frasca

 and since he wasn't replying on the project, I write again via private OSM email:

Hi Blake! could you please check the Questions and Comments tab on the project page? thank you warmly, Mario Frasca

https://tasks.hotosm.org/project/4917

 sent one more reminder two days later, then gave up. 

from the Questions and Comments tab in the task.

mariotomo 2 days ago

Hi bgirardot, I wrote to you in a private message on OSM, to which you reacted “I archived the project.” Through private messages, the communication stays private, while I wish to keep it public. Could you please come back here, and tell the community where to find more information about this project? If “archiving” means “closing”, any chance to see it evaluated?

I've been reminded of this incident by a recent similar contact (https://t.me/OpenStreetMapOffTopic/8662), an answer by Sam Colchester to Charlie Plett from Belize, where Sam mentions "a regional disaster response agency", whichever that might be.

is there anything we can do to make mappers speak about what they are doing?  in particular if they belong to organizations, here I've met HOT backing Esri and YouthMappers in keeping secrecy.

I'm very upset by this continuous hiding of agendas and information protection.

I have no interest in understanding their motives for keeping secrecy, I just wish OSM to fight back.

Mario Frasca - mariotomo

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