[Osmf-talk] [OSM-talk] Call to Take Action and Confront Systemic Offensive Behavior in the OSM Community

OpenLitterMap CitizenScience openlittermap at gmail.com
Thu Dec 10 12:18:51 UTC 2020


Hi guys,

If you want to bring more people into OSM, and open / mapping in general
which I think should be the long-term goal,

Then as a reminder, *litter mapping has a much lower barrier to entry* than
street mapping making it an important catalyst for the development of crowd
powered science and data collection.

An impressive 2 million people have contributed data to OSM, but many more
people can be empowered to become geospatially literate by collecting data
on litter which is not only everywhere, making it extremely accessible, but
everyone knows and understands what the objects are. Many millions more can
be educated about open science, open data, open source, geospatial tech,
and OSM by promoting the development of mapping the plastic that is on the
streets and ending up on the oceans. In fact, more than 50% of our top
litter mappers are female and our social media is followed by a majority
65%+ females.

TBH, I have given up writing to this group. I wrongly thought out of all
the groups in the world, OSMF would be the 1 group that would take the
slightest interest in OpenLitterMap <http://github.com/openlittermap>.

Instead, the best response we have received is to be threatened with legal
action for trying to get more people interested in open science principles.
That is a real shame this is the best response that OSMF can articulate.

Meanwhile, an average of 900 tonnes of plastic continues to flow into the
oceans every hour, and closed platforms are supported, promoted and
celebrated by those new to mapping who do not understand the implications
of restricting access to crowdsourced data and protecting polluting
industries. Personally I find this extremely concerning, which is why I
spent the last 12 years working on the development of OLM.

I love OSM and will continue to support it and encourage people to join and
use it, but surely if someone writes to the group having worked on a
project for more than a decade asking for a bit of help, the group could do
a little more than threaten them with legal action for trying to empower
people to share data on pollution and become geospatially literate instead
of being tricked into protecting the alliance of polluting industries?

I wrongly thought this would be the 1 group in the world interested in
bringing more people into open mapping in general but sadly I was mistaken

Thanks,

Seán


On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 at 11:58, James <james2432 at gmail.com> wrote:

> > The lack of discussion by non-men is an undeniable fact.
>
> >Right, this is true. Sadly true. Something I also know from Linux
> Communities and other Open Source/Open Data Communities.
>
> Same in programming and IT fields, firefighters, mechanics, carpenters,
> construction workers, taxi drivers, etc etc...
>
> Now is it a simple lack of interest in the field? Gate keeping?
> Discrimination/Sexism? Is it because of tradition that is still lingering?
>
> We should work with other humans and see why as well as question ourselves
> what can we do/change?
>
> We should treat other fellow humans, despite sex, race or country of
> origin, as we would want to be treated.
>
> Would you like to be put down based on your employer, despite your
> knowledge? Probably not, then don't do it
>
> Would you like to be put down based on your genitalia, despite being quite
> knowledgeable? No? Then don't do it.
>
> On Thu., Dec. 10, 2020, 6:38 a.m. tilmanreinecke--- via talk, <
> talk at openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
>> > The lack of discussion by non-men is an undeniable fact.
>>
>> Right, this is true. Sadly true. Something I also know from Linux
>> Communities and other Open Source/Open Data Communities.
>>
>> > The simplest explanation for this is the systematic institutional
>> hostility towards women in the OSM community.
>>
>> I did not hear about something like that what can be called "systematic".
>> Are you sure that we have something like that in OSM? If yes, then please
>> point to where that happened. I am pretty sure that this is not something
>> systematic. I know women not feeling this way as you because OpenStreetMap
>> is an open and welcoming community.
>>
>> Greetings
>>
>> Sören
>>
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Call to Take Action and Confront Systemic
>> Offensive Behavior in the OSM Community
>> From: Clay Smalley
>> To: Celine Jacquin
>> CC: osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org,osm
>>
>>
>> I'm noticing a pattern here in the replies to this email:
>>
>> Only men have replied. This is, unfortunately, par for the course on the
>> OSM mailing lists. The lack of discussion by non-men is an undeniable fact.
>> The simplest explanation for this is the systematic institutional hostility
>> towards women in the OSM community. The replies themselves are the best
>> evidence of this.
>>
>> These men replying have taken it upon themselves to explain to a woman
>> what constitutes misogyny. News flash: you do not get to decide what
>> offends other people. If you are a man, misogyny will never happen to you
>> by definition. If you are a man, you have never been, are not, and will
>> never be a victim of misogyny. This isn't your area of expertise. Listen to
>> the experts.
>>
>> Some men replying have even mentioned how this draft letter hurts their
>> feelings. These men need to slow down and consider for a moment that their
>> temporarily hurt feelings are less important than the safety of women.
>> Men's feelings are irrelevant to issues where women are victims.
>>
>> As far as I know, various OSM-affiliated groups have codes of conduct,
>> but there isn't one governing these mailing lists. We need to adopt a code
>> of conduct yesterday.
>>
>> -Clay (they/them)
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 2:13 PM Celine Jacquin <celija at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello everybody
>>> I hope you are all well
>>>
>>> We, several groups, chapters, organizations and individuals, have
>>> reacted to the conversation in the osm-talk-list (
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2020-December/085692.html)
>>> considering that it is an incident symptomatic of the problem we have faced
>>> for many years in the community, which is one of the greatest obstacles to
>>> diversity at all levels of OSM. Time to make a real change.
>>> That is why we have developed a beginning of statement on the desirable
>>> mechanisms to work solidly on the rules of coexistence and improve
>>> diversity.
>>>
>>> We bring it to your attention and invite anyone who feels represented to
>>> sign it. Translations are in preparation (any help is welcome):
>>>
>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/130JCTX9ve4H4ORXznmIVTpXiN3TX8nRGA8ayuTZ9ECI/edit?usp=sharing
>>>
>>>
>>> On behalf of the signatories
>>> Best regards
>>>
>>> Céline Jacquin
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> talk mailing list
>>> talk at openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> talk mailing list
>> talk at openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
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