[Osmf-talk] [OSM-talk] Call to Take Action and Confront Systemic Offensive Behavior in the OSM Community

Thu Dec 10 13:42:44 UTC 2020

Hello/kumusta,

What an overwhelming response! 

This is my first time to email thru the global osm talk; it really takes true grit to join the conversations, huge thanks to the people who inspired me and sparked the flame.

I will keep it short and redirect you to a (short) OSM Diary I wrote on Why WOMEN are pushing for a safe and inclusive space in OSM: https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/arnalielsewhere/diary/395064

A slide from @mapmakerdavid states "it takes good relationships to navigate an ocean.”

=Arnalie

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 10, 2020, at 8:01 PM, James <james2432 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> > The lack of discussion by non-men is an undeniable fact.
> 
> >Right, this is true. Sadly true. Something I also know from Linux Communities and other Open Source/Open Data Communities.
> 
> Same in programming and IT fields, firefighters, mechanics, carpenters, construction workers, taxi drivers, etc etc...
> 
> Now is it a simple lack of interest in the field? Gate keeping? Discrimination/Sexism? Is it because of tradition that is still lingering?
> 
> We should work with other humans and see why as well as question ourselves what can we do/change?
> 
> We should treat other fellow humans, despite sex, race or country of origin, as we would want to be treated.
> 
> Would you like to be put down based on your employer, despite your knowledge? Probably not, then don't do it
> 
> Would you like to be put down based on your genitalia, despite being quite knowledgeable? No? Then don't do it.
> 
>> On Thu., Dec. 10, 2020, 6:38 a.m. tilmanreinecke--- via talk, <talk at openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>> > The lack of discussion by non-men is an undeniable fact.
>> 
>> Right, this is true. Sadly true. Something I also know from Linux Communities and other Open Source/Open Data Communities.
>> 
>> > The simplest explanation for this is the systematic institutional hostility towards women in the OSM community.
>> 
>> I did not hear about something like that what can be called "systematic". Are you sure that we have something like that in OSM? If yes, then please point to where that happened. I am pretty sure that this is not something systematic. I know women not feeling this way as you because OpenStreetMap is an open and welcoming community.
>> 
>> Greetings
>> 
>> Sören
>> 
>> 
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Call to Take Action and Confront Systemic Offensive Behavior in the OSM Community
>> From: Clay Smalley 
>> To: Celine Jacquin 
>> CC: osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org,osm 
>> 
>> 
>> I'm noticing a pattern here in the replies to this email:
>> 
>> Only men have replied. This is, unfortunately, par for the course on the OSM mailing lists. The lack of discussion by non-men is an undeniable fact. The simplest explanation for this is the systematic institutional hostility towards women in the OSM community. The replies themselves are the best evidence of this.
>> 
>> These men replying have taken it upon themselves to explain to a woman what constitutes misogyny. News flash: you do not get to decide what offends other people. If you are a man, misogyny will never happen to you by definition. If you are a man, you have never been, are not, and will never be a victim of misogyny. This isn't your area of expertise. Listen to the experts.
>> 
>> Some men replying have even mentioned how this draft letter hurts their feelings. These men need to slow down and consider for a moment that their temporarily hurt feelings are less important than the safety of women. Men's feelings are irrelevant to issues where women are victims.
>> 
>> As far as I know, various OSM-affiliated groups have codes of conduct, but there isn't one governing these mailing lists. We need to adopt a code of conduct yesterday.
>> 
>> -Clay (they/them)
>> 
>>> On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 2:13 PM Celine Jacquin <celija at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hello everybody
>>> I hope you are all well
>>> 
>>> We, several groups, chapters, organizations and individuals, have reacted to the conversation in the osm-talk-list (https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2020-December/085692.html) considering that it is an incident symptomatic of the problem we have faced for many years in the community, which is one of the greatest obstacles to diversity at all levels of OSM. Time to make a real change.
>>> That is why we have developed a beginning of statement on the desirable mechanisms to work solidly on the rules of coexistence and improve diversity.
>>> 
>>> We bring it to your attention and invite anyone who feels represented to sign it. Translations are in preparation (any help is welcome): 
>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/130JCTX9ve4H4ORXznmIVTpXiN3TX8nRGA8ayuTZ9ECI/edit?usp=sharing
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On behalf of the signatories
>>> Best regards
>>> 
>>> Céline Jacquin
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> talk mailing list
>>> talk at openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>> _______________________________________________
>> talk mailing list
>> talk at openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
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