[Osmf-talk] [OSM-talk] Fwd: Call to Take Action and Confront Systemic Offensive Behavior in the OSM Community

[Sarah Hoffmann]

Hi,

we indeed do have a problem with this list that has been going unaddressed
for years now, a problem which we largely even fail to recognise that it is
there. It has nothing to do with gender, like this whole discussion
is only on the surface about gender. What everybody has been doing here is
to defend core values they explictly assume are universal but which in fact
are mostly defined by each person's personal background. This is something
we need to acknowledge and bring out in the open. We won't be able to have
a civilised discussion until we are able to understand the other's frame
of reference.

My issue with the Call for Action is indeed that it clashes with my self-
perception as an independent human being with agency. On top of that the
way it was presented goes against deep-rooted values I have about how to
engage with other human beings. Both have little to do with me being a woman
and a lot with me having a German upbringing. I won't go into details.
Everything has already been said by others on this list.

People have been asking why women haven't been speaking up. Here is my
personal reason: I don't see any point in defending my core values. It
will just be preaching to the choir for those who share those values and
offending those who don't. I wish I would be able to explain the reasoning
behind those values to those who don't share them but I struggle to find
the right words to do that without giving the impression that I'm just here
to evangelise.

Sarah


On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 11:58:29AM -0800, Kathleen Lu via talk wrote:
> First, let me say that I do know Frederik personally, I have had
> pleasant dinners with him and hope to do so again post-pandemic. He
> has apologised for his poor choice of words, and I accept his apology.
> 
> The volume of attacks and hostile tone against Celine in reaction to
> the document she shared demonstrates exactly why OSM is not a
> welcoming community for the majority of women. For myself, I find the
> listservs to be the least welcoming part of the community. These
> comments are not enough to prevent me from mapping and participating,
> but they are discouraging and demotivating.
>
> A lot of people on this list are conflating systems of discrimination
> and inequality with hostile intent. Systems are not personal and are
> not about intent. Discrimination and inequality can be structural, and
> can and do take place without intent, sometimes by accident, sometimes
> due to structural inequities not within the immediate control of the
> actor(s) examining the issue.
> 
> To make a non-technical analogy, if you step on someone's foot by
> accident, you still stepped on their foot, and their foot still hurts.
> Apologising helps, but it would be better if you didn't step on their
> foot in the future. If one group has shoes and another group does not,
> the group without shoes is more likely to be on the end of painful
> steps. How do you solve such a systematic problem? One option would be
> to give everyone shoes. Another would be for those with shoes to step
> more carefully. Right now, society demands that those without shoes do
> the work of dodging everyone else's steps, documenting a list of times
> they've been stepped on, and explaining why getting stepped on hurts.
> 
> Underrepresentation of women and gender minorities, racial
> underrepresentation, geographic underrepresentation, these are all
> symptoms. If OSM did not systematically exclude these groups, these
> groups would not be underrepresented. Such a problem is not unique to
> OSM, nor is it easy to solve. Step 1 is to recognize the problem. A
> vocal contingent of the community is not willing to do that. I believe
> this contingent is vocal but not a majority of OSM, but
> overrepresented on the listservs. I would encourage those who are
> watching this firestorm to consider that the listservs are a very poor
> representation of the OSM community and the views of its members. I
> would also strongly encourage those watching to vote in the OSMF Board
> elections.
> 
> Kathleen