[Osmf-talk] You're on. :) | Re: Diversity statement (Was: Next OSMF board meeting on Thursday 30 January 2020, at 17:00 UTC)

[Christoph Hormann]

On Thursday 06 February 2020, Rory McCann wrote:
> > As I have repeated several times recently [1], I would be delighted
> > at any time (and for years) to have an objective and open-ended
> > discussion on this topic.  If the OSMF board is actively involved
> > in such a discussion, so much the better.  However, such a
> > discussion can only work if all participants are willing to
> > critically question their positions on the topic and think about
> > fundamentally different points of view.
>
> I know we have talked about this in the past. I am willing to accept
> your challenge! Should we organise that? What format are you
> thinking?

Da bin ich nicht festgelegt.  Wir haben ja in der Vergangenheit vor 
allem über das Thema Verhaltensregulierung gesprochen.  Hier geht es 
eher um das Thema Grundwerte.  Das meiste, was ich zu beiden Themen in 
der Vergangenheit geschrieben habe, ist bei mir im Blog und in meinem 
Diary.  Ich würde mich über jegliche Form der substantiellen Gegenrede 
dazu freuen.  Unter dem Diary-Eintrag zum neuen Grundwerte-Dokument der 
OSMF gab es ja eine erfreulich vielschichtige Diskussion[1], wenngleich 
nicht wie ich es mir eigentlich gewünscht hätte ergebnisoffen.  Auch 
gab es auf meine detaillierte Analyse des Textes leider zwar 
Entgegnungen, dass man diesen anders liest als ich, es gab aber keine 
Argumentation dazu am Text, welche darlegt, in wie fern der Text diese 
Interpretation aus Sicht eines neutralen Beobachters tatsächlich 
hergibt.

Aber wie gesagt - im Grunde fände ich eine ergebnissoffene Diskussion 
darüber, was die Grundwerte von OpenStreetMap sind, die den kleinsten 
gemeinsamen Nenner der OSM-Community darstellen und von allen 
kultur-übergreifend geteilt werden bzw. welche Grundprinzipien von 
allen am Projekt beteiligten akzeptiert werden müssen, damit 
OpenStreetMap nachhaltig funktioniert, viel interessanter und 
wertvoller.

Was das ja im Grunde wesentlich ältere Thema Verhaltensregulierung in 
der OSM-Community angeht (zu welchem zwar das diversity-statement schon 
versucht, von den postulierten Grundwerten ausgehend eine Legitimation 
zu konstruieren - welches aber im Grunde nichts direkt damit zu tun 
hat) - hier würde ich als Ausgangspunkt meine Hypothese von 2017 
anbieten[2], welche ich später noch etwas näher erläutert habe[3].  
Jegliche Versuche, die Darstellung dort zu wiederlegen, sind äußerst 
willkommen.

Non-authoritive translation from deepl.com:

I'm not committed to a particular format.  In the past, we have mainly 
talked about the issue of regulating behaviour.  Here it is more a 
matter of basic values.  Most of what I have written on both topics in 
the past is in my blog and in my diary.  I would be happy about any 
form of substantial counterstatement to this.  Under the diary entry 
for the new OSMF document on fundamental values there was a pleasingly 
complex discussion[1], although not as open-ended as I would have 
liked.  Unfortunately, although my detailed analysis of the text was 
met with the response that it was read differently than I did, there 
was no argumentation in the text to show how far the text actually 
gives this interpretation from the perspective of a neutral observer.

But as I said - basically, I think an open discussion about what the 
core values of OpenStreetMap are, which are the lowest common 
denominator of the OSM community and are shared by all across cultures, 
or which basic principles have to be accepted by everyone involved in 
the project to make OpenStreetMap work sustainably, would be much more 
interesting and valuable.

As far as the basically much older topic of behavioral regulation in the 
OSM community is concerned (for which the diversity statement already 
tries to construct a legitimation based on the postulated basic 
values - but which basically has nothing directly to do with it) - here 
I would offer my hypothesis of 2017 as a starting point [2], which I 
will explain in more detail later [3].  Any attempts to refute the 
presentation there are most welcome.

> Obviously everything would be my personal opinion, not the opinion of
> the board, or foundation. I would be much more comfortable doing it
> in English, than German, but I am willing to attempt to write also in
> German (see below 🙂).

I have in the past generally been willing to have discussions in English 
but substantial appreciation of the good will and courtesy this entails 
from the side of native English speakers are a prerequisite for that, 
in particular by accepting that the use of English is for facilitating 
person-to-person communication on a case-by-case basis only and that 
this can only work if they put the goal of a functioning communication 
above all other goals they might have in the conversation.  That is a 
tough requirement of course and it therefore does not always work.

In particular in this range of topics i have also come to the conclusion 
meanwhile that not communicating in a single language but in several is 
actually often helpful for clarity of thoughts and arguments.  If your 
arguments need to make sense not only in one language but several you 
put more effort in making them clear and robust and into formulating 
with care.

I would be fine with you communicating in English as long as i can use 
German whenever i feel it is necessary to express my thoughts 
accurately and precisely.

[1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/imagico/diary/392072#comments
[2] 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2017-December/004973.html
[3] http://blog.imagico.de/codification-of-contact/


-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/