[Osmf-talk] App, not API level | Re: Règles d'éditions organisées / Directed editing guidelines,

Thu Oct 1 13:12:24 UTC 2020

there are metadata in the changeset: they clearly indicate the editor used.

Le jeu. 1 oct. 2020 à 12:48, Rory McCann <rory at technomancy.org> a écrit :

> In addition (correct me if I'm wrong), there is currently no easily
> supported way to actually block an app/editing software at the API level.
>
> I don't believe in ultimatums for any app that isn't perfect at the start,
> but maps.me has been around a while and has made lots of edits, so they
> should probably up their game.
>
> On Wed, 30 Sep 2020, at 10:42 AM, Simon Poole wrote:
> > Note to all: there is currently no efficient way for an app of any kind
> > to retrieve recent or new changeset comments on the changesets of a
> > specific user via the API. With other words an ultimatum to app devs to
> > do that is just plain silly.
> >
> > Am 30. September 2020 01:34:22 MESZ schrieb Philippe Verdy <
> verdyp at gmail.com>:
> > > I also agree that any app that does not provide any way to submit a
> changeset comment, and does not allow commenting on other's notes and
> comments, should be given an ultimatum now, and then banned after a maximum
> of 2 months, until they prove they implement the minimum communication
> means that are required in what is essentially a **fully cooperative**
> project, i.e. OpenStreetMap. As well each contributor that submit data with
> the app should be directly contactable using the standard OSM tools
> (independently of the possible existence of external communication tools
> specific to the app or its provider).
> > >
> > > For me, MAPS.ME <http://maps.me/> violates the OSM contributor terms
> (by actually not allowing its users to follow these terms correctly), and
> the OSM licence (by not showing the correct contributor terms).
> > > And a way to accelerate this would also mean that the app be blocked
> from using the OSM tile servers.
> > >
> > > MAPS.ME <http://maps.me/> users are not responsible for this: if we
> block MAPS.ME <http://maps.me/>, users will see that their app is not
> working and will use another compliant app.
> > >
> > > This situation is not sustainable: allowing MAPS.ME <http://maps.me/>
> to continue gives a false hint to other abusers that they can do the same
> without damages.
> > >
> > >
> > > Le ven. 25 sept. 2020 à 10:11, Rory McCann <rory at technomancy.org> a
> écrit :
> > >> I think better software can help. Maps.me should support OSM
> messaging, and/or changeset comments. It should provide a way to save
> locations locally rather than OSM. I think many tourism attraction issues
> could be people who just want to save a location. Apps that make it easy
> for people to make a mistake have a responsibility to make it easy for the
> wider community to find and repair those mistakes. Apps should provide web
> services which highlight these sort of problematic edits. The OSM database
> is commons, it's owned by all of us. If you make an app, you can't just do
> what you want, and release it into the world, you have a responsilbity to
> follow OSM norms.
> > >>
> > >> Apps like StreetComplete or pic4review are very focused and limited.
> If new users use these their damage can be limited. (I use StreetComplete
> regularly because it makes many things easier)
> > >>
> > >> I don't support any hierarchy of mappers. We're a wiki, all users can
> edit all objects, immediately. Apps and editing software can, and should,
> have different rules, but at a core OSM level, at an API level, that should
> be the method.
> > >>
> > >> Rory
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, 23 Sep 2020, at 6:00 PM, Lukasz Kruk wrote:
> > >> > > I'm beginning to think that a simple way to improve data quality
> would be to put a less powerful tool in the hands of inexperienced mappers.
> > >> >
> > >> > Indeed, I can think of a few other examples where a poor editing
> tool
> > >> > with inadequate guidance leads to the creation of bad data. Is
> there a
> > >> > way to flag such cases and/or address systemic issues?
> > >> >
> > >> > For example, for some reason MAPS.ME <http://maps.me/> <
> http://maps.me/> users in the
> > >> > Middle East seem to create a lot of points tagged as
> tourism=attraction
> > >> > in cases where it is certainly not the correct tag
> > >> > (http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/YfW). To make it worse, there seems to
> be
> > >> > no reliable way of contacting these users. Can I do anything do
> help to
> > >> > fix this?
> > >> >
> > >> > Speaking more generally - is it perhaps worth it to have a
> conversation
> > >> > if e.g. user accounts younger than X and with less than Y
> changesets
> > >> > are restricted from particular types of edits (e.g. ones that touch
> > >> > relations, or delete reaaaaly large features)? Or - to be even more
> > >> > general, and try to address the problem as close to the source as
> > >> > possible - would the community or OSMF want to make sure that every
> OSM
> > >> > editor (software, not person) needs to have adequate guidance
> before
> > >> > allowing edits? Or perhaps editors with lower access barrier (such
> as
> > >> > smartphone apps) should require that the user completes ID editor's
> > >> > walkthrough before allowing edits?
> > >> >
> > >> > Sorry for straying off the original topic. Regards,
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 at 15:18, John Whelan <jwhelan0112 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >> > > I'm beginning to think that a simple way to improve data quality
> would be to put a less powerful tool in the hands of inexperienced
> mappers.  A simpler editor with fewer choices or perhaps an existing editor
> with restricted choices for a particular task or region.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Do we really need sidewalk=no on every village street in Africa?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > For more experienced mappers yes its nice to have the flexibility
> but for someone with say less than 100 edits mapping from imagery a simpler
> editor might be better.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > The trouble with instructions is they must be read and understood
> and many new mappers just want to map first.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Cheerio John
> > >> > >
> > >> > > severin.menard via osmf-talk wrote on 2019-06-22 7:53 AM:
> > >> > >> (Automatic DeepL translation below)
> > >> >
> > >> > >> Bonjour
> > >> >
> > >> > >> Il y a quelques semaines, j’ai participé à l’organisation d’un
> mapathon sur plusieurs jours dans le cadre d’une formation à OpenStreetMap
> et aux outils de la géomatique, animée à Antananarivo à Madagascar avec
> d’autres contributeurs OpenStreetMap expérimentés.
> > >> >
> > >> > >> J’ai cherché à me conformer aux nouvelles règles concernant les
> éditions dirigées de la Fondation OSM [1] adoptée par son bureau le 15
> novembre 2018 [2], en listant notre activité dans cette page du wiki [3] et
> en créant une sous-page spécifique [4] en m’aidant, à défaut de modèles
> génériques, de l’un des exemples fournis qu’il m’a fallu adapter au
> contexte. J’ai récemment procédé à une mise jour de cette sous-page pour
> intégrer les résultats de ces éditions. Je serais intéressé d’avoir des
> retours et suggestions du groupe de travail sur les données.
> > >> >
> > >> > >> J’ai ensuite regardé les autres projets de la page wiki
> principale [3]. Parmi les organisations qui ont fait des mapathons une
> activité importante voire phare de leur activité, j’ai pu remarquer à mon
> grand étonnement que :
> > >> >
> > >> > >> - HOT US Inc propose bien une sous-page spécifique, mais pour
> l’ensemble de ses éditions organisées, avec une section finale
> particulièrement succincte sur la qualité qui semble s’appuyer uniquement
> sur les capacités du Tasking Manager, en dehors des projets où des équipes
> de terrain peuvent être impliquées. De récentes discussions [5] au sujet du
> contrôle de qualité dans les projets ont montré que le processus de suivi
> n’est pas jugé satisfaisant par des contributeurs expérimentés
> > >> >
> > >> > >> - Youthmappers a juste créé une ligne dans le tableau principal
> sans aucune sous-page spécifique ni quelconque indication sur la manière de
> gérer les éditions dirigées qu’elle encourage pourtant vivement [6]
> > >> >
> > >> > >> - Missing Maps n’apparaît nullement dans le tableau principal en
> tant qu’organisation, seul est présent le groupe CZ & SK qui fournit une
> sous-page extrêmement limitée [7] ! Les catastrophes cartographiques
> engendrées par les mapathons labellisés Missing Maps ont pourtant été l’une
> des deux raisons de la mise en place de cette politique visant à encadrer
> les éditions dirigées, avec les nuisances provoquées par quelques
> entreprises contribuant dans OSM comme bon leur semble et refusant
> d’interagir avec la communauté OSM.
> > >> >
> > >> > >> Actuellement, cette politique concernant les éditions dirigées
> n’est donc, paradoxalement, pas respectée, voire totalement négligée par
> les principales organisations qu’elle ciblait. Quelle suite compte donner
> la Fondation et son groupe de travail sur les données devant ces faits,
> plus de six mois après l’officialisation des Organised editing guidelines ?
> > >> >
> > >> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> > >> Cordialement,
> > >> >
> > >> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> > >> Severin
> > >> >
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> ------------------
> > >> > >> Hello,
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> A few weeks ago, I participated in the organization of a
> multi-day mapathon as part of a training course on OpenStreetMap and
> geomatics tools, held in Antananarivo, Madagascar with other experienced
> OpenStreetMap contributors.
> > >> > >> I have sought to comply with the new rules concerning the OSM
> Foundation's directed editions[1] adopted by its board on November 15,
> 2018[2], by listing our activity in this page of the wiki[3] and by
> creating a specific subpage[4] by using, in the absence of generic models,
> one of the examples provided, which I had to adapt to the context. I
> recently updated this subpage to include the results of these editions. I
> would be interested to have feedback and suggestions from the Data Working
> Group.
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> I then looked at the other projects on the main wiki page [3].
> Among the organizations that have made Mapathons an important or even
> flagship activity of their activity, I was surprised to notice that:
> > >> > >> - HOT US Inc does propose a specific subpage, but for all its
> organized editions, with a particularly brief final section on quality that
> seems to rely solely on the capabilities of the Tasking Manager, outside
> projects where field teams can be involved. Recent discussions[5] about
> quality control in projects have shown that the monitoring process is not
> considered satisfactory by experienced contributors
> > >> > >> - Youthmappers has just created a line in the main table without
> any specific subpage or guidance on how to manage the directed editions,
> which it strongly encourages[6]
> > >> > >> - Missing Maps does not appear in the main table as an
> organization, only the CZ & SK group is present, which provides an
> extremely limited subpage[7] ! The cartographic disasters caused by Missing
> Maps labelled mapathons were however one of the two reasons for the
> implementation of this policy aimed at regulating directed editions, with
> the nuisances caused by some companies contributing to OSM as they see fit
> and refusing to interact with the OSM community.
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> At present, this policy concerning directed editions is
> therefore, paradoxically, not respected or even totally neglected by the
> main organizations it targeted. What follow-up does the Foundation and its
> Data Working Group intend to give to these facts, more than six months
> after the officialization of the Organized editing guidelines?
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> Sincerely,
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> Severin
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator <
> http://www.deepl.com/Translator> <http://www.deepl.com/Translator>
> > >> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> > >> [1]
> https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/w/images/6/62/Organised_Editing_Guidelines.pdf
> > >> >
> > >> > >> [2]
> https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Board/Minutes/2018-11-15#Voting
> > >> >
> > >> > >> [3]
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organised_Editing/Activities
> > >> >
> > >> > >> [4]
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organised_Editing/Activities/Madagascar_Itasy_lake_Mapathon
> > >> >
> > >> > >> [5]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/hot/2019-June/014897.html
> > >> >
> > >> > >> [6]
> https://www.youthmappers.org/single-post/2019/06/18/The-Importance-of-Mapping-in-Earthquake-Regions
> > >> >
> > >> > >> [7] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Cs:Mapathon
> > >> >
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> > osmf-talk mailing list
> > >> > >> osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org
> > >> > >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk
> > >> > >
> > >> > > --
> > >> > > Sent from Postbox <https://www.postbox-inc.com/>
> > >> > > _______________________________________________
> > >> > > osmf-talk mailing list
> > >> > > osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org
> > >> > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> > pozdrawiam - kind regards - cumprimentos - mfg
> > >> > Łukasz Kruk
> > >> > http://lukaszkruk.com
> > >> > _______________________________________________
> > >> > osmf-talk mailing list
> > >> > osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org
> > >> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> osmf-talk mailing list
> > >> osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org
> > >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk
> >
> > --
> > Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Mobiltelefon mit Kaiten Mail
> gesendet.
>
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