[Osmf-talk] App, not API level | Re: Règles d'éditions organisées / Directed editing guidelines,

Wed Sep 30 08:42:11 UTC 2020

Note to all: there is currently no efficient way for an app of any kind to retrieve recent or new changeset comments on the changesets of a specific user via the API. With other words an ultimatum to app devs to do that is just plain silly.

Am 30. September 2020 01:34:22 MESZ schrieb Philippe Verdy <verdyp at gmail.com>:
>I also agree that any app that does not provide any way to submit a
>changeset comment, and does not allow commenting on other's notes and
>comments, should be given an ultimatum now, and then banned after a
>maximum of 2 months, until they prove they implement the minimum
>communication means that are required in what is essentially a **fully
>cooperative** project, i.e. OpenStreetMap. As well each contributor
>that
>submit data with the app should be directly contactable using the
>standard
>OSM tools (independently of the possible existence of external
>communication tools specific to the app or its provider).
>
>For me, MAPS.ME violates the OSM contributor terms (by actually not
>allowing its users to follow these terms correctly), and the OSM
>licence
>(by not showing the correct contributor terms).
>And a way to accelerate this would also mean that the app be blocked
>from
>using the OSM tile servers.
>
>MAPS.ME users are not responsible for this: if we block MAPS.ME, users
>will
>see that their app is not working and will use another compliant app.
>
>This situation is not sustainable: allowing MAPS.ME to continue gives a
>false hint to other abusers that they can do the same without damages.
>
>
>Le ven. 25 sept. 2020 à 10:11, Rory McCann <rory at technomancy.org> a
>écrit :
>
>> I think better software can help. Maps.me should support OSM
>messaging,
>> and/or changeset comments. It should provide a way to save locations
>> locally rather than OSM. I think many tourism attraction issues could
>be
>> people who just want to save a location. Apps that make it easy for
>people
>> to make a mistake have a responsibility to make it easy for the wider
>> community to find and repair those mistakes. Apps should provide web
>> services which highlight these sort of problematic edits. The OSM
>database
>> is commons, it's owned by all of us. If you make an app, you can't
>just do
>> what you want, and release it into the world, you have a
>responsilbity to
>> follow OSM norms.
>>
>> Apps like StreetComplete or pic4review are very focused and limited.
>If
>> new users use these their damage can be limited. (I use
>StreetComplete
>> regularly because it makes many things easier)
>>
>> I don't support any hierarchy of mappers. We're a wiki, all users can
>edit
>> all objects, immediately. Apps and editing software can, and should,
>have
>> different rules, but at a core OSM level, at an API level, that
>should be
>> the method.
>>
>> Rory
>>
>> On Wed, 23 Sep 2020, at 6:00 PM, Lukasz Kruk wrote:
>> > > I'm beginning to think that a simple way to improve data quality
>would
>> be to put a less powerful tool in the hands of inexperienced mappers.
>> >
>> > Indeed, I can think of a few other examples where a poor editing
>tool
>> > with inadequate guidance leads to the creation of bad data. Is
>there a
>> > way to flag such cases and/or address systemic issues?
>> >
>> > For example, for some reason MAPS.ME <http://maps.me/> users in the
>> > Middle East seem to create a lot of points tagged as
>tourism=attraction
>> > in cases where it is certainly not the correct tag
>> > (http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/YfW). To make it worse, there seems to
>be
>> > no reliable way of contacting these users. Can I do anything do
>help to
>> > fix this?
>> >
>> > Speaking more generally - is it perhaps worth it to have a
>conversation
>> > if e.g. user accounts younger than X and with less than Y
>changesets
>> > are restricted from particular types of edits (e.g. ones that touch
>> > relations, or delete reaaaaly large features)? Or - to be even more
>> > general, and try to address the problem as close to the source as
>> > possible - would the community or OSMF want to make sure that every
>OSM
>> > editor (software, not person) needs to have adequate guidance
>before
>> > allowing edits? Or perhaps editors with lower access barrier (such
>as
>> > smartphone apps) should require that the user completes ID editor's
>> > walkthrough before allowing edits?
>> >
>> > Sorry for straying off the original topic. Regards,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 at 15:18, John Whelan <jwhelan0112 at gmail.com>
>wrote:
>> > > I'm beginning to think that a simple way to improve data quality
>would
>> be to put a less powerful tool in the hands of inexperienced mappers.
> A
>> simpler editor with fewer choices or perhaps an existing editor with
>> restricted choices for a particular task or region.
>> > >
>> > > Do we really need sidewalk=no on every village street in Africa?
>> > >
>> > > For more experienced mappers yes its nice to have the flexibility
>but
>> for someone with say less than 100 edits mapping from imagery a
>simpler
>> editor might be better.
>> > >
>> > > The trouble with instructions is they must be read and understood
>and
>> many new mappers just want to map first.
>> > >
>> > > Cheerio John
>> > >
>> > > severin.menard via osmf-talk wrote on 2019-06-22 7:53 AM:
>> > >> (Automatic DeepL translation below)
>> >
>> > >> Bonjour
>> >
>> > >> Il y a quelques semaines, j’ai participé à l’organisation d’un
>> mapathon sur plusieurs jours dans le cadre d’une formation à
>OpenStreetMap
>> et aux outils de la géomatique, animée à Antananarivo à Madagascar
>avec
>> d’autres contributeurs OpenStreetMap expérimentés.
>> >
>> > >> J’ai cherché à me conformer aux nouvelles règles concernant les
>> éditions dirigées de la Fondation OSM [1] adoptée par son bureau le
>15
>> novembre 2018 [2], en listant notre activité dans cette page du wiki
>[3] et
>> en créant une sous-page spécifique [4] en m’aidant, à défaut de
>modèles
>> génériques, de l’un des exemples fournis qu’il m’a fallu adapter au
>> contexte. J’ai récemment procédé à une mise jour de cette sous-page
>pour
>> intégrer les résultats de ces éditions. Je serais intéressé d’avoir
>des
>> retours et suggestions du groupe de travail sur les données.
>> >
>> > >> J’ai ensuite regardé les autres projets de la page wiki
>principale
>> [3]. Parmi les organisations qui ont fait des mapathons une activité
>> importante voire phare de leur activité, j’ai pu remarquer à mon
>grand
>> étonnement que :
>> >
>> > >> - HOT US Inc propose bien une sous-page spécifique, mais pour
>> l’ensemble de ses éditions organisées, avec une section finale
>> particulièrement succincte sur la qualité qui semble s’appuyer
>uniquement
>> sur les capacités du Tasking Manager, en dehors des projets où des
>équipes
>> de terrain peuvent être impliquées. De récentes discussions [5] au
>sujet du
>> contrôle de qualité dans les projets ont montré que le processus de
>suivi
>> n’est pas jugé satisfaisant par des contributeurs expérimentés
>> >
>> > >> - Youthmappers a juste créé une ligne dans le tableau principal
>sans
>> aucune sous-page spécifique ni quelconque indication sur la manière
>de
>> gérer les éditions dirigées qu’elle encourage pourtant vivement [6]
>> >
>> > >> - Missing Maps n’apparaît nullement dans le tableau principal en
>tant
>> qu’organisation, seul est présent le groupe CZ & SK qui fournit une
>> sous-page extrêmement limitée [7] ! Les catastrophes cartographiques
>> engendrées par les mapathons labellisés Missing Maps ont pourtant été
>l’une
>> des deux raisons de la mise en place de cette politique visant à
>encadrer
>> les éditions dirigées, avec les nuisances provoquées par quelques
>> entreprises contribuant dans OSM comme bon leur semble et refusant
>> d’interagir avec la communauté OSM.
>> >
>> > >> Actuellement, cette politique concernant les éditions dirigées
>n’est
>> donc, paradoxalement, pas respectée, voire totalement négligée par
>les
>> principales organisations qu’elle ciblait. Quelle suite compte donner
>la
>> Fondation et son groupe de travail sur les données devant ces faits,
>plus
>> de six mois après l’officialisation des Organised editing guidelines
>?
>> >
>> > >>
>> >
>> > >> Cordialement,
>> >
>> > >>
>> >
>> > >> Severin
>> >
>> > >>
>> > >> ------------------
>> > >> Hello,
>> > >>
>> > >> A few weeks ago, I participated in the organization of a
>multi-day
>> mapathon as part of a training course on OpenStreetMap and geomatics
>tools,
>> held in Antananarivo, Madagascar with other experienced OpenStreetMap
>> contributors.
>> > >> I have sought to comply with the new rules concerning the OSM
>> Foundation's directed editions[1] adopted by its board on November
>15,
>> 2018[2], by listing our activity in this page of the wiki[3] and by
>> creating a specific subpage[4] by using, in the absence of generic
>models,
>> one of the examples provided, which I had to adapt to the context. I
>> recently updated this subpage to include the results of these
>editions. I
>> would be interested to have feedback and suggestions from the Data
>Working
>> Group.
>> > >>
>> > >> I then looked at the other projects on the main wiki page [3].
>Among
>> the organizations that have made Mapathons an important or even
>flagship
>> activity of their activity, I was surprised to notice that:
>> > >> - HOT US Inc does propose a specific subpage, but for all its
>> organized editions, with a particularly brief final section on
>quality that
>> seems to rely solely on the capabilities of the Tasking Manager,
>outside
>> projects where field teams can be involved. Recent discussions[5]
>about
>> quality control in projects have shown that the monitoring process is
>not
>> considered satisfactory by experienced contributors
>> > >> - Youthmappers has just created a line in the main table without
>any
>> specific subpage or guidance on how to manage the directed editions,
>which
>> it strongly encourages[6]
>> > >> - Missing Maps does not appear in the main table as an
>organization,
>> only the CZ & SK group is present, which provides an extremely
>limited
>> subpage[7] ! The cartographic disasters caused by Missing Maps
>labelled
>> mapathons were however one of the two reasons for the implementation
>of
>> this policy aimed at regulating directed editions, with the nuisances
>> caused by some companies contributing to OSM as they see fit and
>refusing
>> to interact with the OSM community.
>> > >>
>> > >> At present, this policy concerning directed editions is
>therefore,
>> paradoxically, not respected or even totally neglected by the main
>> organizations it targeted. What follow-up does the Foundation and its
>Data
>> Working Group intend to give to these facts, more than six months
>after the
>> officialization of the Organized editing guidelines?
>> > >>
>> > >> Sincerely,
>> > >>
>> > >> Severin
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator <
>> http://www.deepl.com/Translator>
>> > >>
>> >
>> > >> [1]
>>
>https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/w/images/6/62/Organised_Editing_Guidelines.pdf
>> >
>> > >> [2]
>> https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Board/Minutes/2018-11-15#Voting
>> >
>> > >> [3]
>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organised_Editing/Activities
>> >
>> > >> [4]
>>
>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organised_Editing/Activities/Madagascar_Itasy_lake_Mapathon
>> >
>> > >> [5]
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/hot/2019-June/014897.html
>> >
>> > >> [6]
>>
>https://www.youthmappers.org/single-post/2019/06/18/The-Importance-of-Mapping-in-Earthquake-Regions
>> >
>> > >> [7] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Cs:Mapathon
>> >
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> > osmf-talk mailing list
>> > >> osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org
>> > >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Sent from Postbox <https://www.postbox-inc.com/>
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > osmf-talk mailing list
>> > > osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org
>> > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > pozdrawiam - kind regards - cumprimentos - mfg
>> > Łukasz Kruk
>> > http://lukaszkruk.com
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > osmf-talk mailing list
>> > osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org
>> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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