[Osmf-talk] Moving the OSMF to the EU?

Mateusz Konieczny matkoniecz at tutanota.com
Thu Jul 1 06:12:08 UTC 2021




Jun 30, 2021, 22:47 by b.kilhu+ytrwslnopdfujmrtjzkvsxweizfjncifmzdwwypiihjzdikulpnvql+- at gmail.com:

> Instead of proprietary cloud drive apps, the best solution would be a
> shared Markdown document in a git repo (like on gitlab.com). 
>
Note that it will scare away people not familiar with git
(AKA nonprogrammers). What makes this a really poor choice.

> A third alternative would be some kind of mediawiki hosted somewhere
>
Somehow I feel that https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/ would be fitting.
Though while wiki editing has much smaller barrier to entry it
still ha some.

> Then there are loads of trendy coediting services, but I think they
> lack in too many aspects (too few instances, issues with backing up
> and rehosting, discoverability, indexability, etc): OnlyOffice,
> NextCloud, Collabora Online, CryptPad, Feng Office Community Edition,
> EtherPad, EtherCalc.
>
Discoverability and indexability are not real concern here

>
> On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 10:32 PM Edward Bainton <bainton.ete at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> > If we can, create a shared database
>> Did anyone do this? I doubt I have the skills (unless through G**gle Drive), but it seems the best next step to me, too.
>>
>> > Have you considered Estonia?
>> My criteria would include a developed professional services sector that habitually operates in English - eg, providing English blogposts on corporate law in that jurisdiction. I'm guessing (guessing) that Brussels or Geneva would have the edge there. That's important because there will be statutory rules affecting the governing document that the OSMF is subject to, whatever the OSMF constitution says (eg, in the UK, rules on removal of directors).
>>
>> > You should not use "English" as a limiting factor
>> Not absolutely, no, but worldwide it is the widest-spoken lingua franca, so imo offers the best chance (on average) for members to have good access to their rights. But it's far from universal, so I would argue long-term for a federal OSMF with sections that use each of the UN languages.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 at 18:42, Philippe Verdy <verdyp at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I do agree. After all this is what all major international organizations are doing: e.g. Microsoft or Google with their subsidiary in Ireland without having their "directors" (of the main organization) to be in Ireland.
>>> An I really doubt that language support is an issue (even in France: look at Strasbourg for major institutions of the EU and of the Council of Europe; only companies located in France have to provide some essential info in French for French residents; and there are lot of exceptions for NGOs, like the Red Cross).
>>>
>>> Interesting places to look at are then where EU, CoE, or UN institutions are located: these places are multilingual with excellent support for English (but not only! And it would be very interesting to be in these places that support MORE languages for a larger part of the world, including outside Europe): Haaguen/La Haye (or Amsterdam for their large internet centers), Brussels/Bruxelles, Luxembourg, Strasbourg, Frankfurt, Geneva... and even Paris (seat of several EU and UN agencies as well). All these places have excellent/fast transportation with UK (notably Brussels and Paris, by plane or high speed train, and lot of transportation services wit hthe rest of the world, huge competition/low prices, high availability). All these places have very favorable conditions for NGOs (small like OSM, or large like the Red Cross), and lot of facilities to manage international financial transfers and assets.
>>>
>>> You should not use "English" as a limiting factor, after all once you have eliminated UK and Ireland, you'll find NO other country in the EU having universal support of English for everything and everyone. But places that are already highly multilingual and where legal documents written in English are recognized exists EVERYWHERE in the EU (and the EU itself makes lot of efforts to support these English documents as valid, without forcing them to be translated; judges are also treating lot of affairs in English, even if by law they will be forced to create a legal translation in their national official language(s). If you look at the two most important languages of EU, it has NEVER been English, but French (in FR, BE, AD, MC, LU, parts of ES, IT, and DE) and German (in DE, AT, CH), followed by Italian (in IT, part of DE, LI, and CH) or Dutch (in BL and BE).
>>>
>>> An international organisation like OSM whose goal is to support the world would not focus on using English exclusively for everything (and after all that's another reason why chapters were created, and they should have a larger role, all ofd them being able to offer services in English when it's really required). So making some efforts at OSM to be a bit more multilingual will be benificial (including for the rest of the world: think about Russia, China, India, South Africa, Israel, Arabic countries, South America supporting Spanish and Portuguese, or Indonesia: these are very populated areas of the world with lot of demand and activities for OSM).
>>>
>>> Note that the EU is a bit limitative territory, where as single market rules extend a bit more (at least to the EEA and Switzerland as well even if it's not part of EU and EEA, but partitipates in almost all activities and cooperates with lot of countries around the world, via UN agencies).
>>>
>>> For me the best candidate place is Brussels (and it is already multingual, having to support French, Dutch and German, plus all official languages of the EU for all works and lobbying with EU institutions).
>>>
>>>
>>> Le mer. 30 juin 2021 à 15:57, Lorenzo Losa <lorenzo.losa at email.it> a écrit :
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On sab, 2021-06-19 at 19:10 +0200, Guillaume Rischard wrote:
>>>> > The OSMF board is considering relocating the OSMF to the EU. We
>>>> > haven’t taken our decision yet, and would like to first consult its
>>>> > membership for feedback, advice and whether we’ve missed anything.
>>>>
>>>> A few years ago there was a search for a country for incorporating an
>>>> international organization in Wikimedia; the project failed, but you
>>>> can find the discussions here, in case there is something useful:
>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Resolutions/2012_WCA_place_of_registration
>>>>
>>>> >       •  Move the whole foundation? A hybrid approach – keeping the
>>>> > “main” OSMF in the UK and having a sister OSMF in the EU – might
>>>> > reduce the effort or even work better.
>>>>
>>>> You could also work together with a chapter, if it makes sense. I can
>>>> say that the Italian chapter would be happy to help.
>>>>
>>>> Lorenzo
>>>>
>>>>
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