[Osmf-talk] Moving the OSMF to the EU?

Edward Bainton bainton.ete at gmail.com
Thu Jul 1 08:20:24 UTC 2021


Seconding this request not to have it on git-hub: even the word 'pull
request' is meaningless to most people.

If we could come close to the easy access that G**gle offers it would be
great: on this question especially, I think we need maximum input from
non-programmers (who might be lawyers, accountants, corporate governance
specialists, etc)

On Thu, 1 Jul 2021 at 07:21, Mateusz Konieczny via osmf-talk <
osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org> wrote:

>
>
>
> Jun 30, 2021, 22:47 by
> b.kilhu+ytrwslnopdfujmrtjzkvsxweizfjncifmzdwwypiihjzdikulpnvql+- at gmail.com
> :
>
> Instead of proprietary cloud drive apps, the best solution would be a
> shared Markdown document in a git repo (like on gitlab.com).
>
> Note that it will scare away people not familiar with git
> (AKA nonprogrammers). What makes this a really poor choice.
>
> A third alternative would be some kind of mediawiki hosted somewhere
>
> Somehow I feel that https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/ would be fitting.
> Though while wiki editing has much smaller barrier to entry it
> still ha some.
>
> Then there are loads of trendy coediting services, but I think they
> lack in too many aspects (too few instances, issues with backing up
> and rehosting, discoverability, indexability, etc): OnlyOffice,
> NextCloud, Collabora Online, CryptPad, Feng Office Community Edition,
> EtherPad, EtherCalc.
>
> Discoverability and indexability are not real concern here
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 10:32 PM Edward Bainton <bainton.ete at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> > If we can, create a shared database
> Did anyone do this? I doubt I have the skills (unless through G**gle
> Drive), but it seems the best next step to me, too.
>
> > Have you considered Estonia?
> My criteria would include a developed professional services sector that
> habitually operates in English - eg, providing English blogposts on
> corporate law in that jurisdiction. I'm guessing (guessing) that Brussels
> or Geneva would have the edge there. That's important because there will be
> statutory rules affecting the governing document that the OSMF is subject
> to, whatever the OSMF constitution says (eg, in the UK, rules on removal of
> directors).
>
> > You should not use "English" as a limiting factor
> Not absolutely, no, but worldwide it is the widest-spoken lingua franca,
> so imo offers the best chance (on average) for members to have good access
> to their rights. But it's far from universal, so I would argue long-term
> for a federal OSMF with sections that use each of the UN languages.
>
>
> On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 at 18:42, Philippe Verdy <verdyp at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I do agree. After all this is what all major international organizations
> are doing: e.g. Microsoft or Google with their subsidiary in Ireland
> without having their "directors" (of the main organization) to be in
> Ireland.
> An I really doubt that language support is an issue (even in France: look
> at Strasbourg for major institutions of the EU and of the Council of
> Europe; only companies located in France have to provide some essential
> info in French for French residents; and there are lot of exceptions for
> NGOs, like the Red Cross).
>
> Interesting places to look at are then where EU, CoE, or UN institutions
> are located: these places are multilingual with excellent support for
> English (but not only! And it would be very interesting to be in these
> places that support MORE languages for a larger part of the world,
> including outside Europe): Haaguen/La Haye (or Amsterdam for their large
> internet centers), Brussels/Bruxelles, Luxembourg, Strasbourg, Frankfurt,
> Geneva... and even Paris (seat of several EU and UN agencies as well). All
> these places have excellent/fast transportation with UK (notably Brussels
> and Paris, by plane or high speed train, and lot of transportation services
> wit hthe rest of the world, huge competition/low prices, high
> availability). All these places have very favorable conditions for NGOs
> (small like OSM, or large like the Red Cross), and lot of facilities to
> manage international financial transfers and assets.
>
> You should not use "English" as a limiting factor, after all once you have
> eliminated UK and Ireland, you'll find NO other country in the EU having
> universal support of English for everything and everyone. But places that
> are already highly multilingual and where legal documents written in
> English are recognized exists EVERYWHERE in the EU (and the EU itself makes
> lot of efforts to support these English documents as valid, without forcing
> them to be translated; judges are also treating lot of affairs in English,
> even if by law they will be forced to create a legal translation in their
> national official language(s). If you look at the two most important
> languages of EU, it has NEVER been English, but French (in FR, BE, AD, MC,
> LU, parts of ES, IT, and DE) and German (in DE, AT, CH), followed by
> Italian (in IT, part of DE, LI, and CH) or Dutch (in BL and BE).
>
> An international organisation like OSM whose goal is to support the world
> would not focus on using English exclusively for everything (and after all
> that's another reason why chapters were created, and they should have a
> larger role, all ofd them being able to offer services in English when it's
> really required). So making some efforts at OSM to be a bit more
> multilingual will be benificial (including for the rest of the world: think
> about Russia, China, India, South Africa, Israel, Arabic countries, South
> America supporting Spanish and Portuguese, or Indonesia: these are very
> populated areas of the world with lot of demand and activities for OSM).
>
> Note that the EU is a bit limitative territory, where as single market
> rules extend a bit more (at least to the EEA and Switzerland as well even
> if it's not part of EU and EEA, but partitipates in almost all activities
> and cooperates with lot of countries around the world, via UN agencies).
>
> For me the best candidate place is Brussels (and it is already multingual,
> having to support French, Dutch and German, plus all official languages of
> the EU for all works and lobbying with EU institutions).
>
>
> Le mer. 30 juin 2021 à 15:57, Lorenzo Losa <lorenzo.losa at email.it> a
> écrit :
>
>
> On sab, 2021-06-19 at 19:10 +0200, Guillaume Rischard wrote:
> > The OSMF board is considering relocating the OSMF to the EU. We
> > haven’t taken our decision yet, and would like to first consult its
> > membership for feedback, advice and whether we’ve missed anything.
>
> A few years ago there was a search for a country for incorporating an
> international organization in Wikimedia; the project failed, but you
> can find the discussions here, in case there is something useful:
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Resolutions/2012_WCA_place_of_registration
>
> > • Move the whole foundation? A hybrid approach – keeping the
> > “main” OSMF in the UK and having a sister OSMF in the EU – might
> > reduce the effort or even work better.
>
> You could also work together with a chapter, if it makes sense. I can
> say that the Italian chapter would be happy to help.
>
> Lorenzo
>
>
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