[Strategic] List etiquette

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

Steven Feldman wrote:
> See http://opengeodata.org/osm-mailing-lists-time-for-a-change

That's a very poisonous article. Many people seem to believe that the 
fact that "the lists" are somehow not doing what is expected of them - 
whatever that is - comes down to a handful of individuals who have a 
problem with their temper or attitude.

I think that is a dangerous simplification. I think that people have 
been talking themselves into a lynch mob mood for quite a while now, and 
by now everybody seems to think that whatever "problem" we have with our 
mailing lists (or even, whatever problem we have with newbies, with 
attracting new mappers, or something) is down to three or four 
individuals, and that everything will just magically become better once 
we've got rid of them.

I don't think this is true. For example, since Anthony has already been 
mentioned: Firstly, I have heard nobody say that legal-talk has become a 
better place since he's gone; instead, legal-talk is unchangedly being 
proclaimed as a place where newbies daren't enter (a self-fulfilling 
prophecy if there ever was one).

Same for the talk list, where Anthony is not banned as far as I know, 
even so his latest post was one month ago, and this has not kept Steve 
Coast from still claiming, today, in the above article, that the list is 
broken.

So, one down, three to go; let's moderate away the next most annoying 
people, and everything will be all right, no?

I'm 100% sure that nothing will improve. After kicking out those people 
who everybody thinks are the root of all evil, the mailing lists will 
still not work. What to do? Identify the next most annoying people and 
kick them too, because by then it is dogma that everything that goes 
wrong must be down to a few annoying people, right? And so on.

It is possible, and I say this very carefully and with healthy 
skepticism, that moderation and policy enforcement may be one part in a 
healthy climate on the mailing lists. But they are certainly not the 
easy fix for all problems.

Stretegic is to be applauded for the thoughtful approach that Mikel 
posted, including his point 1 ("have people who care set better 
example"). Because I know a lot of good people who do nothing but whine 
about "the lists" (and equally "the wiki") and when asked why they have 
withdrawn from the social medium that the lists are, they say that they 
couldn't bear the madness. But I have a suspicion that a good many of 
them are just using the "bad climate" as a convenient excuse because 
large mailing lists take a lot of time...

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frederik at remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"