[Tagging] "Feature Proposal - RFC - Sidewalk

Serge Wroclawski emacsen at gmail.com
Tue Mar 22 19:40:19 GMT 2011

On Mar 22, 2011 12:19 PM, "Peter Wendorff" <wendorff at uni-paderborn.de>

> Slightly disagree here:
> A sidewalks is a lane for a pedestrian in a low-traffic residential road.
> Towards a young child I would define a sidewalk as a way - the child
should not cross the street otherwhere than at marked and much as possible
secured crossings.

A way doesn't represent or correlate with a road. A way is just an ordered
list of nodes.

What is represented by a way is entirely determined by tags.

I think some other issues are being brought into this discussion which IMHO
are separate.

First, this proposal doesn't supplant, replace or effect other proposals. I
think that the sidewalk tag can live in harmony with other tags and
standalone footways in the same way atm=yes doesn't proclude there being an
amenity=atm tag.

Secondly, I think that the issue of routing is getting confused with common
sense and law. If there's a wall as a barrier then people will not drive
into it. Similarly, if there is traffic, people will not run into the street
to cross the road.

Third, there's seems to be an undercurrent of "correctness" in this
discussion. Let's remember that OSM is largely focused on topological
consistency. We want to get the most data in OSM as possible and we can
iteratively improve things. The problems we as a community encounter are
largely when we make something complex for folks to map.

> A wheelchair user will interpret the sidewalk as a separate way, not a
lane, as long as there is a curb higher than a specific treshold - and
that's the case nearly everywhere, where no marked crossing or at least a
driveway to a house is located.

Also, let's remember that a wheelchair user isn't brain dead. It'd be great
to map those ramps, etc. but that's not something found on most commercial
maps, so we'd actually be ahead of the game.

> I know: A healthy, perhaps a little bit tired of life adult will cross the
street wherever he wants; but a local car driver will also use the street
where we objectively have to tag access=destination to have a shortcut.

> But is that really a lane? Doesn't that indicate the sidewalk being a
dedicated way?

Its not a lane; it's a feature of the road, just as we have tags for roads
lined with trees.

Yes, you could also argue it's a separate way, etc., but in my mind, a
pavement along the sides of a road is a sidewalk; and thus a road feature.

>> and adding a separate highway=footway indicates that there is a barrier
between the footway

>> and the road.
> There is! Ask the next wheelchair user or old man/woman with a walking
frame about the barrier a curb of normal height is for him

I don't understand your point here. It sounds like you're concerned that
people who are mobility impaired will have trouble, but right now there's
very little data, so there's no way for them to get into trouble, since the
routing software won't tell them to go anywhere. :)

In other words, let's try to do the simple thing, get the data in, and then
we can see what people want to do with it later.
- Serge
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