[Tagging] Extended Conditions - response to votes
frederik at remote.org
Fri Jul 6 00:12:55 BST 2012
On 06.07.2012 00:09, Eckhart Wörner wrote:
> Well, if this proposal fails I would say everybody who voted against
> it has to come up with a better one (where "better" is based on some
> actual arguments)
In my eyes this proposal is a typical
Of course, if somebody asks me to come up with a technical solution that
could be used to model all (or even 99.9% of all) combinations of access
restrictions possible, in a machine readable way, then I'd have to
invent something like it.
But I think these kinds of complex tagging schemas only satisfy a few
über mappers who are delighted to be able to model something complex.
They won't be adopted by a large enough group of people to even remotely
rely on these tags being present and correct.
I suggest the following course of action:
1. Use the proposed tag in a limited area somewhere.
2. Create an application that acutally makes good use of the proposed
tag, something where people go: "Wow, great, this bicycle routing engine
on my iphone gives me different routes depending on whether the
pedestrian area is open for traffic or not, that's something I have *so*
been waiting for!"
3. Then, based on the strength of "this cool real-world application will
work better if these access rules are properly mapped so let's all agree
on the best way to do it", get the discussion going.
With this procedure, there's a remote chance that people will indeed use
the tag because they get tangible results. Even then it will be
difficult because we already demand a lot of our mappers. Frankly, I'm
sick of hearing "oh we'll just make a nice template in the editor for
this" because those templates already give every mapper the impression
that a simple street with a name is not enough anymore - a new mapper
stupid enough to open the JOSM preset for a residential road is already
asked whether the road is lit, how many lanes it has, what the surface
and the maximum speed were, how wide the road was (in metres), whether
there was an incline... this has all grown from the "oh let's just make
a nice template then mappers can enter this stuff" idea but the result
is that every mapper is left feeling inadequate because he cannot
remember if there were street lights in the street he surveyed.
I'm a big fan of the "show application, introduce tags" idea. Everything
else is just "wouldn't it be nice if..." tag wanking that gets us nowhere.
As long as there are no real-world applications for this kind of
detailed access mapping one can simply use the "note" tag and add stuff
in natural language. That's my proposal for now ;)
Frederik Ramm ## eMail frederik at remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
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