[Tagging] [Talk-us] First bona fide mini-roundabout spotted

Volker Schmidt voschix at gmail.com
Wed May 9 09:23:41 BST 2012


I don't see why this discussion is so complicated.
OSM tags are based on British English terms for historic reasons.
In that contest there is a clean-cut distinction between a roundabout and a
mini-roundabout:
Quote from Wikipedia: "Mini-roundabouts can be a painted circle or a low
dome but must be fully traversable." (from:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini_roundabout#Mini-roundabouts)
A small round-about, that has an obstacle in the middle (example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pacionfi.JPG), is not a mini_roundabout,
but a roundabout, albeit a small one.

Volker
(Padova, Itlay)

On 9 May 2012 04:10, Steve Bennett <stevagewp at gmail.com> wrote:

> The problems with this tag are the same with most tags. The history
> goes something like:
>
> 1) The original creator has a very specific real-world object in mind:
> painted roundabout patterns on intersections in their local area
> 2) Other people in the local area recognise this real-world concept
> and also apply the tag.
> 3) Soon it makes its way into editors, renderers etc.
> 4) People in other parts of the world see this tag and think they should
> use it.
> 5) They deduce what they think are the salient features: it's small,
> it's painted, you can drive over it physically, you can drive over it
> legally...
> 6) Different kinds of real world objects get mapped with the tag, that
> include some, but not all of the above salient features (eg,
> roundabouts you can drive over, but are physically raised; or
> roundabouts that are just painted but legally you must not drive over
> them...)
> 7) People notice the contradiction between the (poor) documentation
> and current practice, and try to change it
> 8) People who used the tag in step 6 object, because now it doesn't
> match the way *they* use the tag.
>
> I'm not sure what the moral of the story here is, except that whoever
> creates the tag originally has the easiest job, because the tags match
> up beautifully with their local environment. (See highway=footway,
> highway=cycleway, highway=bridleway, which actually appear as words on
> signs in the UK - but compare the difficulty of applying them to
> somewhere like Australia)
>
> I kind of think the only real solution is to have a fairly loose
> coupling between regions about the definition of tags, and tight
> cohesion within regions. So highway=mini_roundabout should universally
> mean something like "small roundabout you could probably drive over",
> but within a single region (either a country, or perhaps smaller), it
> should have a much stricter definition, depending on local road laws,
> building practices etc.
>
> (We do this already with tags like highway=motorway and
> highway=cycleway, but we could be much more systematic.)
>
> Steve
>
> On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 2:18 AM, Erik Johansson <erjohan at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 11:54 PM, Philip Barnes <phil at trigpoint.me.uk>
> wrote:
> >> On Mon, 2012-05-07 at 13:30 -0700, Paul Johnson wrote:
> >>> On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 1:28 PM, Nathan Mills <nathan at nwacg.net> wrote:
> >>> > So this is not/should not be a mini_roundabout? It seems a little
> silly to
> >>> > call it anything else, since the city just dug a hole in the center
> of the
> >>> > existing intersection, built a circular curb, and planted a tree:
> >>> >
> >>> > http://g.co/maps/e2gsv
> >>> >
> >>> > What about this one? Also a full on roundabout?
> >>> >
> >>> > http://g.co/maps/d6n74
> >>> >
> >>> > This looks more like a roundabout to me:
> >>> >
> >>> > http://g.co/maps/hnbp9
> >>>
> >>> All three are roundabouts, yes.
> >> All 3 are roundabouts, none of them a mini-roundabouts.
> >>
> >> The point of a mini-roundabout is that they can be driven over, hence
> >> whilst cars are supposed to go around them and many are 'speed-hump
> >> raised' to encourage this behaviour. Trucks can pass over them as many
> >> are in places where a truck cannot get around otherwise.
> >>
> >> The first 2 should be mini-roundabouts, as a truck is likely to have
> >> serious issues with them. I cannot imagine that tree will last too long.
> >>
> >> This is a mini-roundabout, which you can see is raised slightly
> >> http://g.co/maps/hm49m
> >> Actually its part of the magic roundabout, which is a roundabout you can
> >> go around in either direction, and at each intersection there is a
> >> mini-roundabout. On osm its here, http://osm.org/go/eumbs5ZIw--
> >>
> >> Phil
> >
> >
> > But Nathan does have a point, mini-roundabouts are not a specifically
> > good name, and the current docs will only make more people tag small
> > roundabouts as highway=mini_roundabouts..
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > /emj
> >
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