[Tagging] Fwd: Tagging Live indoor music venues

Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdreist at gmail.com
Tue Feb 26 15:33:13 UTC 2013

sorry, again missled to talk, should have gone to tagging:

From: Martin Koppenhoefer <dieterdreist at gmail.com>
Date: 2013/2/26
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] Tagging Live indoor music venues
To: Peter Wendorff <wendorff at uni-paderborn.de>
Cc: talk at openstreetmap.org

2013/2/26 Peter Wendorff <wendorff at uni-paderborn.de>:
> But where's the border?

we won't be able to find this out in a general and universal way, it
is up to the local mapper with his knowledge to decide this on an
individual basis. What we can do as a community is to establish a
reasonable system with proposals how to tag certain types of things,
and what are the categories the single mapper will probably choose

 In the following examples let all these facilities
> serve food and drinks.
> - an event location that has daily concerts and opens only for these events.

a church? ;-)

> - an event location that has daily concerts, but is open two hours before
> already and stays open for the rest of the night until everyone is gone.

a subway station? ;-)

Sorry for bringing these up, but you simply can't rely on this few
information, you will need a concrete case to decide (and will maybe
not choose based on the criteria you are trying to bring in but on

> You may add arbitrary many steps in between - where's the point to switch
> from one to another, as the proposed scheme was to put both under amenity
> and therefore to conflict, you have to decide for one.

all the restaurants will be restaurants in my tagging world, with
maybe an additional attribute like "live_music", surely they won't be
concert halls.

> I would say, food & drinks and music are (at least) two different things
> that should be kept different and should not conflict if possible.

fine. I could agree on this, but it's probably not necessary: If it's
a restaurant, it won't be a concert hall at the same time, if it's a
music venue, the restaurant will be either a (smaller) part of it
(taggable inside the venue boundary) or it will be a special kind of
restaurant (i.e. the music is an attribute and tagged as such on a
restaurant). Btw.: It is not so common to have concerts in restaurants
time anyway, usually having concerts is more a thing of bars, pubs and
nightclubs (which also offer food, but which are not restaurants). The
kind of music you usually have in a restaurant (even if it's live) is
more "background" music (IMHO).

> Agreed for the super-tag, it's not necessary. But nevertheless the very big
> amenity bunch often is a problem.

it is indeed a problem when there are several orthogonal values for
the same key, agreed. I'd also prefer to have more descriptive keys
like "eating" (or "food"), "drinking", "accommodation" and have
proposed a key "culture" some years ago (with not the greatest
reception but someone amended it):

> To break it down one level, we could use "top level tags" for
> - gastronomy (pub or bar serving drinks, restaurant, club as serving drinks,
> cafe, ice cafe),

+1, but a little bit late ;-)

> - music (club as offering [live|dj|...] music floors), concert hall, ...


> - events (trade fairs, conferences, concerts, circus, comedy, theatre, ...)

+1, thought we had these (i.e. we have tags for describing the areas
where these take place, we _usually_ don't map events themselves as
far as I know).

> but
> 1) that's not perfect either
> 2) it does not solve the problem but just breaks it down to the next level.

+1, there is no such thing as a completely logical model of the world,
and while for some it might make sense to group everything remotely
related to music into this new music keys, for others it might not
make sense to have a choral society under the same key as a nightclub
or as a concert hall.

If I was the OP I'd go with amenity=music_venue for those rock concert
places and with amenity=concert_hall for concert halls, plus
documented subtags


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