[Tagging] Childcare Tag

Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdreist at gmail.com
Fri Jul 19 09:04:47 UTC 2013

2013/7/19 Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org>

> On 07/19/2013 03:33 AM, Serge Wroclawski wrote:
>> We've managed to handle creating definitions that we could use
>> worldwide for pretty much everything else, including roads, sports,
>> other schools, various amenities, etc.
> Have we really?
> In Italy (and Martin will correct me if I'm wrong), a "bar" will typically
> open in the morning and you can have breakfast there. Has that lead to OSM
> using "amenity=cafe" for these businesses because in other countries a
> "bar" tends to be mainly for evening drinks, or are we using "amenity=bar"
> in Italy and counting on the map user to know that this is something
> different in different places?

Actually you are touching a "sore" point, this is one of the very few
specialties in Italian tagging, and there is indeed no real consensus how
to tag these. Thing is that an Italian "bar" is yes, supposed to be open in
the morning, but it will normally also be open for lunch (usually simple
meals, mostly self service, but after breakfast you would not go there for
sweet food but for sandwiches and maybe pasta and similar) and some of them
will also be open until late at night (and people will drink mostly
alcoholic stuff then). And there are also businesses that qualify perfectly
for amenity=cafe (they call themselves "sala da thé" and are exactly what
in Germany or Austria is a "cafe"). Some Italian users insist on using
amenity=cafe for all kind of "Italian bars" but that also doesn't catch it
in many cases (because many don't have seats but only a bar/counter, have
self service). The solution for us is that some are amenity=bar and others
are amenity=cafe (the bigger ones, when there are tables and service).

I think to some extend it is normal that there are local differences, take
a petrol station for instance, in Germany you would not only go there by
car but mayn people also walk there or go by bike to get tobacco, beer or
fresh milk at times where other shops have to be closed, as they have often
become real convenience stores, while in Italy you could never get tobacco
or beer at a petrol station.

There are a few other differences in tagging as well, e.g. we use to have 2
main types of pizza places in Italy (the take away ones, selling sliced
pizza, and the restaurant ones, where you can only buy whole pizzas and
will have seating and table service), we use amenity=fast_food for the
first and amenity=restaurant for the latter, or ice_cream, in Germany they
get mostly (?) tagged as amenity=cafe, cuisine=ice_cream, but in Italy most
ice_cream shops are take away places more similar to what in Germany is a
"Konditorei" (~"sweets bakery") and ice cream makers legally belong to the
~"sweet makers craft" (sorry for this transcription, I hope you get it).

In general there is a strong wish in the Italian community to use globally
unified tags, but when there are particular regional differences we try to
take them into account.

Another object that comes to my mind is amenity=pub. You will usually get
something to eat in a pub in the UK, but you won't in many German
"amenity=pub" (indeed it might have been a good idea to invent something
dedicated for the German "Kneipe", but osm history put it that way).

> Personally I don't think that it would be terribly bad if
> amenity=kindergarten would mean something else in the US than in Germany,
> for example.
> (I *would* find it strange though if anything from elementary school
> upwards would be classed as "childcare"


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