[Tagging] Proposal - voting finished - man_made=lamp

John F. Eldredge john at jfeldredge.com
Wed Nov 27 19:01:06 UTC 2013


Manuel Hohmann <mhohmann at physnet.uni-hamburg.de> wrote:
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> > A draw means "rejected" as it isn't a majority for "yes". A
> > "partial yes" like an "abstain" counts as vote that isn't "yes", so
> > for practical reasons you can count this like a "no". At least this
> > is what the rules had been so far.
> 
> A draw is a draw, it's not a majority for "no" either. You can count
> an "abstain" whatever you want, it neither "yes" nor "no". Here we had
> a "partial yes". And besides, as I explained before, I also took into
> account the comments and reasons for opposing in the decision to keep
> working on the proposal.
> 
> > To make it clear, I am not in general against tagging lights and
> > lamps (besides those that already get tagged), but I also do not
> > think that all kind of light emitting objects have necessarily to
> > go under one and the same tag. Generally substituting one tag by
> > requiring two tags isn't desirable (IMHO). The tag
> > "highway=street_lamp" is widely used and there is (IMHO) no reason
> > to believe a street light/lamp isn't part of a highway. You can see
> > it as one or the other and apparently there are not so few mappers
> > who see it as a usable tag.
> 
> Yes, this is the main outcome of the voting, as I said. And this will
> be taken into account in the further work on this proposal. The
> discussions here and in the forum have shown that both opinions exist
> - - regarding street lamps as part of the highway or not.
> 
> > Given that there is already a tag for the (supposedly) most
> > required thing in this field to be tagged, why not invent a (or
> > more) new tag(s) for what remains and you want to tag?
> 
> Of course one can do this as well. My aim was to unify the tagging of
> these objects, since they all generate light. This idea is not new -
> think of public_transport=stop_position, for example. But of course
> one can have different opinions, as always in OSM.
> 
> > And when inventing a new tag, why not do it "right" (i.e. with the 
> > correct terminology)? Just as there are different words in German 
> > (Leuchte, Strahler, Scheinwerfer, Fluter as opposed to "Lampe"), 
> > there are also in English.
> 
> I was using the term that was attested to me by native speakers to be
> most commonly used, and also understandable to others. Many people,
> especially non-native speakers, might not even know the term "light
> fitting", even though it's correct UK English.
> 
> > Why not e.g. use a tag "floodlights" for certain typology of
> > lights, or "lantern" for another?
> 
> This is also possible, provided that one can easily distinguish these
> topologies. As a remark, "lantern" was also on my list, but as I
> figured out, it usually refers to portable light sources.
> 
> > As an analogy, we also do not use "highway=street",
> > "street=primary" because the way stuff went has brought us this
> > distinction already in the "main tag", and someone now trying to
> > reinvent this wheel would most probably fail.
> 
> Of course, highway=* is a key that already indicates some type of way
> or related feature, so one can immediately specify the type of feature
> in the value. "highway=street", "street=primary" would thus make no
> sense. This is different for man_made=*, which does not give much
> information on the type of object.
> 
> One could of course also think of not using man_made at all, and
> introduce light=floodlights etc. as a new primary tag, in order to
> group light sources with a more unified tagging. But honestly I have
> no idea whether this would be better or worse.
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In my personal experience, the same type of lamps used for street lighting are also used in many business and apartment parking lots, and even in the occasional back yard.

-- 
John F. Eldredge -- john at jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that.
Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that."
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
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