[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - opening hours open until

Robin `ypid` Schneider ypid23 at aol.de
Tue Feb 25 13:32:58 UTC 2014

On 25.02.2014 10:21, SomeoneElse wrote:
> Robin `ypid` Schneider wrote:
>> So I created a short proposal:
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/opening_hours_open_until
> In a related point, we need to be careful that when trying to translate 
> all of the data in opening_hours into something that a computer can 
> understand that information isn't lost.  "Breakfast until 11am" usually 
> makes perfect sense to a human in the context of the rest of the tags on 
> an item.
You are right. That is the point of my proposal. The syntax should be as close
to the real world as possible. So my question is if we should just invent a
starting time (which should then be the earliest possible opening time) and
specify a comment (state unknown) or if the software which evaluates the
opening_hours should do that. I am really not sure about that and would go
either way but I want to discuss this first.

In some cases you can complete the opening_hours for the kitchen with the
opening_hours of the facility. I had this case yesterday in which the opening
hours where specified completely but the starting time for the kitchen was
basically a reference to the starting time of the facility.

In this case the thing I wrote here
might come in handy to still prevent the original meaning.

> As another example, this pub node:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1479235861/history
> had opening hours of "12:00-late" changed to "12:00+".  In context (a 
> pub in an old English town centre) "12:00-late" carries meaning that 
> "12:00+" does not, despite it confirming to some rules artificially 
> imposed by https://github.com/ypid/opening_hours.js .
Well I guess that I am responsible for both of these issues. The problem with
"12:00-late" is that it is not valid syntax and thous can not evaluated by
software. The "12:00+" is evaluated by opening_hours.js as "12:00-24:00" which
is probably not long enough in this case. But it does come somewhere close to
reality. I suggest using a comment to change the meaning of this open end or
suggesting to extend the interpretation of open end.

I saw this construct multiple times and added an input tolerance into
opening_hours.js so that this value does not result in an error but still warns
that this does not completely follow the syntax (but it is kind of clear what is
The warning would be: "12:00-late <--- (You can use notation "+" for "-late".
You might want to express open end which can be specified as "12:00+" for example.)"
which gives a hint to the mapper.

> We certainly shouldn't be mechanically changing opening_hours tags that 
> don't quite correspond to those rules when we don't quite understand the 
> cultural context of the original tags.
You are right. I did manually look at this node and came to the conclusion that
open end would be appropriate. If that is not quite the case then it can still
be improved (as suggested above).

> Cheers,
> Andy
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Live long and prosper
Robin Schneider

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