[Tagging] surface=ground/dirt/earth

Dave Swarthout daveswarthout at gmail.com
Mon Mar 17 03:47:00 UTC 2014


Fernando,

Thanks for your efforts on this troublesome topic. I've been following the
conversation but have avoided adding any comments up to now because of the
complexity of any solutions I could offer.

<Begin rant>
 I have problems with the whole relationship between tracktype, surface,
and smoothness and how they work, or do not work, together. For instance,
IMO tracktype should describe the physical characteristics of a track, not
a highway, and it should have nothing to do with "how well maintained" it
is. A track is a track (a rough road or trail, unpaved, mostly
un-maintained) suitable for light use only, and is never a highway. Both
tracks and highways, however, have surfaces whose character is often a
function of the material they're made from, and those surfaces have an
additional important characteristic called smoothness. How a "highway" ever
got a tracktype tag is beyond me and seems a big mistake. But it's been
used so many times it would be all but impossible to change it now. As far
as smoothness is concerned, many have derided it as being too subjective.
Yet, to me, it is a very important characteristic. How to measure it in any
meaningful way is another entire issue.
<End rant>

Moving on:

In the edited tracktype entry (first link above) where you
say, "particularly regarding surface stiffness", IMO the word "stiffness"
is not a good term to describe a surface. Stiffness is resistance to
bending. Perhaps soundness, permanence, or better yet, durability.

Personally, I would remove the word "paved" from the definition of
tracktype=grade1 entirely (link 2 above). I know this would meet with tons
of argument but I would prefer something like:

   - Solid. Usually a heavily compacted and durable surface.

The changes to smoothness and surface definitions are fine. I'm in total
agreement.

Cheers,

Dave (AlaskaDave)



On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 8:11 AM, Fernando Trebien <
fernando.trebien at gmail.com> wrote:

> Do you all agree with these wiki edits?
>
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key%3Atracktype&diff=1002090&oldid=992679
>
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AMap_Features%3Atracktype&diff=1002096&oldid=971383
>
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key%3Asmoothness&diff=1002098&oldid=905282
>
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key%3Asurface&diff=1002099&oldid=970317
>
> On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 6:07 PM, Fernando Trebien
> <fernando.trebien at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 6:41 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer
> > <dieterdreist at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> 2014-03-15 16:29 GMT+01:00 Fernando Trebien <fernando.trebien at gmail.com
> >:
> >>
> >>> "tracktype" is the "degree of compaction" of the material
> >>> (regardless of material)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I have always more thought of it "how much it was constructed", while
> >> tracktype=1 is a paved road, 5 will be a track on grass (almost or not
> >> constructed at all) and the rest in between. Generally a
> tracktype=grade1
> >> should be easily navigable by bike or foot also after days of rain
> while for
> >> grade2 you would hope so and grade3 is not clear, 4 and 5 probably not.
> In
> >> the end it is a generalized hierarchical system that comprises several
> >> single characteristics to come to a summarizing tag value (and the
> single
> >> characteristics are not documented and may vary on individual basis).
> >> Somehow it still works as you can compare the values with other tracks
> in
> >> the same area.
> >
> > Hm I think that someone on a city bike (not on a mountain bike) would
> > find tracktype=grade2 somewhat inconvenient, but still usable indeed.
> >
> > Anyway, I'm making these questions because thinking of "degree of
> > compaction" (same as "hardness" maybe) makes tracktype essentially
> > independent from both smoothness and surface tags. You can then guess
> > more accurately things such as expected speed, comfort level, draft
> > forces, and the risk of getting bogged.
> >
> > One question: do you think that an almost flat natural rock path
> > should be tracktype=grade1 (because it's closer to "compacted") or
> > tracktype=grade5 (because it's not "constructed")?
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> - "smoothness" is the "degree of irregularity" of the surface (for
> >>> wheeled vehicles, also regardless of material)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> yes. in other words how "smooth" or "even" the surface is.
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> - "surface" more closely represents the material structure, usually
> >>> regardless of other characteristics (with a few exceptions)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> yes, surface is a mixture of the ~material (roughly classified) and in
> some
> >> cases the way of application / the overall structure (e.g.
> cobblestones).
> >>
> >> cheers,
> >> Martin
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Fernando Trebien
> > +55 (51) 9962-5409
> >
> > "The speed of computer chips doubles every 18 months." (Moore's law)
> > "The speed of software halves every 18 months." (Gates' law)
>
>
>
> --
> Fernando Trebien
> +55 (51) 9962-5409
>
> "The speed of computer chips doubles every 18 months." (Moore's law)
> "The speed of software halves every 18 months." (Gates' law)
>
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>



-- 
Dave Swarthout
Homer, Alaska
Chiang Mai, Thailand
Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
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