[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Husainiya
johnw at mac.com
Sat Aug 22 00:26:44 UTC 2015
I wrote a more detailed response on another thread - but i think it easily boils down to landuse=religious is for a POW and its amenities. That can be checked by two things:
-it is a single (named) landuse whose main function or main building is religious in nature, usually with a POW tag on that particular building or feature.
- Any other amenities present, no matter how varied, are okay to be there on that single land use if they are *in support of* the worshippers or the visitors of the POW(s).
This feels very straightforward to me, because it is dependent on what is there, and intended purpose, not merely who holds the deed. (Duck tagging!)
Land ownership itself is not important - an apartment is just an apartment with church as operator or something.
A dedicated apartment for monks at a remote temple facility (with a single name and a wall around it) would be on landuse=religious - it clearly meets the the two things above. the baseball diamond near the river and the sports grounds nearby my school are wholly owned by my school (therefore the temple), but easily fail the two criteria above. They are marked as sports pitches in OSM, operator=[the school] and access=private
Because of the varied nature of religious facilities - POWs with a wide variety of things on their landuse - landuse=religious needs to be somewhat flexible - there are always odd examples (tire center on church grounds next to the church) but the basic criteria of the two rules make it easily understood that "this is a religious facility and its amenities" just like any other retail / industrial / commercial / residential facility - Just as Costco is a warehouse store... With a pharmacy, food court, and tire center and gas station. It is odd to have a supermarket/warehouse with a tire installation center or gas station, but that is what it is.
Many houses and most large buildings - especially industrial ones - have a small shinto shrine in the far corner of the lot, thanking the spirit of the land the drop forge is on for letting them use the land and not causing them trouble (AFAIK).
This small shrine (the size of a desk or shed) is an amenity of the industrial complex - so it sits on Landuse=industrial.
I an not trying to say that this makes a little square of landuse=religious necessary nor the enitre complex marked as "religious" is because merely there is a shrine there. Otherwise almost all Japanese houses would be considered religious because of the small "house shrine" found in most single family homes. It is clearly mot the purpose of the structures & land.
But if you are tagging a religious facility with known land area around, yes, I expect landuse=religious around it, just like you would tag retail around a convenience store or industrial around a small metal parts fabrication company.
> On Aug 21, 2015, at 7:34 PM, Andreas Goss <andig88 at t-online.de> wrote:
>> On 8/21/15 10:19 , John Willis wrote:
>> When you live in places that don't have churches - churchyard is incorrect - especially when **it isn't mapping a yard**.
>> I have temple grounds here. So churchyard is also not a neutral tag, therefore it is a garbage tag. It should be depreciated and erased.
> Then we should maybe come up with a tag that covers the area around a place of worship. Sacred ground or something like that. I'm no saying churchyard was the perfect tag, but at lest it was very clear what it meant when used.
>> And there are many complexes that have many many buildings associated with, yet are not a POW, so mapping it as a landuse - like we do for residential/commercial/retail/industrial facilities ***is more consistent***.
> Sure, the problem is that landuse=religious will often clash with those. What if you have a brewery run by monks? What if you have housing that's owned by the church? In Germany the church is the largest private land owner, they own a lot of commercial building etc. are those then all landuse=religious?
> Also if I have church do I now have to put landuse religious around it every time?
>> The front lawn in front of an industrial complex is on landuse=industrial. Same with its office, parking lots, storage sheds, and everything else that isn't a drop forge.
>> The exact same reasoning applies - and applies consistently - to a religious complex that is more than just a church.
>> Would you be complaining that a parking lot for the industrial drop forge - sitting on the named landuse for the industrial facility- isn't right because "that parking lot is not a drop forge! What is the parking lot making? It isn't a factory!!"
>> Thats what I hear when people complain about landuse=religious - "are they worshipping a parking lot?? So stupid!"
> No, my problem is much more when for example the church owns some offices somwhere does it then make that landuse=religious? Or as pointed out above if to landuses are possible, what do I use? The problem is landuse=religious isn't just expanding a bit around a place of worship like for example amenity=school/university. The way the tag is defined now I is supposed to be used every time there is something religious. Which is not really that good on the ground information and in my opinion not usefull when it comes to the church owning commercial, industial or residential buildings.
> Catholic church owns apartmentcomplex in the middle of the citiy: landuse=religious o_O
>> So myopic.
>> Don't complain about
>> A) what you don't need, yet others do.
>> B) tags meant for a different usage in a different part of the world that may not apply to you and your corner of the globe.
> A lot of these tags are used in Germany and close countries like the UK or Poland. So yeah I think I have a pretty good understanding when I look how they are used and how it is explained. And just looking at a few I would say 90% are used as what I would call church yard.
>> And religious facilities may have a very different style, types of buildings, and layout than your bog standard church.
>> Being inflexible enough to not get that only makes you look stupid, not the tag.
> Being so fexible that the tag means nothing doesn't help either.
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