[Tagging] RFC - Level:ref=*

John Willis johnw at mac.com
Thu Dec 3 04:18:40 UTC 2015



Javbw

> On Nov 30, 2015, at 6:05 AM, Simon Poole <simon at poole.ch> wrote:
> 
> as an extra tag on POis that already has a level tag. I would rather be looking for something that fits in with SIT (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Simple_Indoor_Tagging) better. Since SIT works really well (see OpenLevelUp),

TL;DR:

We're talking about two different things doing two different goals. 


~~~~~~~~

I was thinking about this a bit more. 

Perhaps we are trying to do two different jobs. 

It looks like the SIT stuff is for rendering and actually displaying, in a 3D spatial way, a shop or location. 

That is not what I am trying to do. 

Just like it's zip code or phone number is not (sub-building) spatial information, but it is important information about the POI.  

OpenStreetMap is many things to many people - and much of my mapping is for replicating location level maps - a map of a park, a resort, or a tourist attraction. A person going to a park or a mall or a big building has searched and found a location (shop, viewpoint, attraction) and is shown that it is in a building that is difficult to navigate. I have searched for coffee shops, clothing stores, and restaurants in Tokyo, and the location is so complicated that the normally helpful POI in is not very helpful with them. I need more information - so I imagine most everyone else does too. Onsite navigation of very complicated complexes - like Tokyo Dome City or KitaSenju station or Tokyo Sky Tree - are dependent on on-site physical signs, information maps with ref #s on locations, and elevators with floor information for traveling around inside the POI. Also, printed location guides are common in Japan (at every door of every large mall), which are not common to see in the US. All of these signs and maps and guides use references *not* in the address - only refs and names on location level signage. 

I want to map this (sometimes crucial) information. 

In a vast majority of mundane POI search instances - visiting a lawyer's office in a big building - knowing it is on level 12 unit 1207 is just fine. 

But in complicated places where floors have names/refs that are more important than a level number, or when a "building" is a collection of various platforms and levels, not presented as a single building with levels, then providing that ref information with a POI pin info display would help the person navigate the last 200m through the structure to the actual location. 

This works with POI reference pins on the local information map. If I go to a mall, and I am told it is #42 on the mall's map and guidebook, it makes finding my way through the mall straightforward. Telling me it is unit 412 (it's mailing address) is useless, possibly counterproductive - if there is unit information in the official address at all. 
In some places, this offical address information is enough - Malls in California routinely show the unit number on the front window as the unit number is also in the mailing address - but that is not the case everywhere on earth. It seems Very Different here in Japan - I rarely see unit numbers for shops in malls in their address, hence the reliance on guides and maps and other physical onsite spatial aides. Which change very rarely (due to the huge cost of changing all the signage) 

How many years will it be until this SIT stuff will be able to guide me on the myriad of overlapping platforms, levels, and shops in KitaSenju station? Through the maze of walkways and tunnels in Horton Plaza in San Diego? The nightmare of overlapping pedestrian levels, footbridges, train stations, subway entrances, amusement parks, and malls that make up Tokyo Dome City? I bet it will be a really, really, really long time from now that it can correctly show me all the escalators and footbridges and multiple levels I have to traverse to get from place to place, let alone render the buildings in a way that shows me the proper connections for each transportation method and let me infer the path from the displayed information - which is how I use maps. I am not trying to get involved with this 3D placement. That is totally outside my interest, and I think the level:ref proposal is as well. 

Appending level:ref & unit:ref to needed 
POIs will help people searching for locations in crazy places right now. All we have to do is show it with the displayed POI information when searched. 

Anyways - the building rendering will still have to show floor numbers and refs eventually - so when your building rendering shows the floor name (observation deck) and my POI search told me the cafe is on the observation deck - then that sounds like a really good thing - but both are different sets of information. 

Javbw. 


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