[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - parking=storage: additional values for key parking

johnw johnw at mac.com
Mon Feb 23 00:34:36 UTC 2015

> On Feb 22, 2015, at 8:47 PM, Jan van Bekkum <jan.vanbekkum at gmail.com> wrote:
> You never can do it fully correct:
> The breakfast restaurant in a two-star hotel just for residents is an amenity
> A restaurant in a five-star hotel has to be present to qualify the for five stars, just like a gym, so it is an amenity, although you have to pay separately for the service
> Gyms and restaurants are also standalone businesses, in that case shop would be more logical
> What about the five-star hotel also serving non-residents?
This is a good case question - but the overwhelming majority of restaurants in the world - probably 99.9 percent of restaurants are shops - not some amenity for a hotel - so it feels really weird having it in the amenity space.

I think the hotel restaurant is the exception that proves the rule:

All true restaurants accept money for food, so they are all shops - they just have access restrictions. if it is a place you sit down and they give you food in exchange for money, it is a restaurant. The amenity for the hotel is room service. If it is a room where you eat your lunch, it is a break room.

I don’t think it matters if it is part of the hotel or not, as long as it is named and it is accessible to the public or customers. the operator is the hotel,  but the sign on the street level says “restaurant" and people would tag a point in that section of the hotel building area to indicate the presence of a restaurant. if the restaurant at the 2 star is named, and there is a sign out front, then it is a shop. if it is a breakfast nook next to the front desk with a box of corn flakes and a danish, it might be something else. (Amenity=meal_corner?)

Maybe there should be a “hospitality=*” top level key so we could set some basic amenities of the hotel or same that way - and leave restaurants to actual shops who offer food for money - even if it is private (an army base with a mcdonlads, a private dining club, a guests only restaurant in a hotel, etc). 

hospitality:breakfast=7:00 to 9:00  (whatever the access restriction theme is)  <— for the “breakfast service” which is a Danish in a bag and a cup of orange juice

because it it is impossible to map out most tall tower hotels, and covering amenity points all over a hotel outline is not really useful, and listing more than one amenity on a hotel object (which are usually just points, like a gym and a restaurant) is impossible because it is all in the amenity space!

the gym is an amenity and a shop - just like the storage we are discussing. I think it is bad to have all gyms in amenity, but we should still me able to be able to classify it as an amenity for point tagging in larger facilities  (where it truly is an amenity of a facility) 

If there is some modifier to put on a business to say “this is a business built around the amenity=*”, that might work, but I’d prefer to have separate shop=* or business=* tag - as the weight room at a high school and a local gym are two very different things - one is a business you search for, and the other is an amenity of the much larger facility. 

maybe I’m misunderstanding something fundamental about tagging, or the way access works, or the way the data is parsed - but not being able to tag “shop foo” a “shop” while being able to tag “shop bar” a “shop” is really counterintuitive - how many people keep tagging in OSM once they make an account? This is part of the reason that is so low. 

so, so many businesses are basic shops selling things or services to people - probably less than 5% run into these issues - the world is full of well defined shop, weather in a mall, on a street, or even on the side of the road a s a vegetable stand.  most of them are straightforward about directly offering services for money. 


> In the case of vehicle parking it is a standalone business and not something you expect to be part of a larger business, so shop is most appropriate
> On Sun Feb 22 2015 at 12:27:19 PM Andreas Goss <andig88 at t-online.de <mailto:andig88 at t-online.de>> wrote:
> > shop=storage to me means a shop that sells bags, boxes .. stuff to store
> > things in ... not the space to store stuff in.
> >
> > so shop=vehicle_storage would be better if it is to be shop=.
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