[Tagging] RFD tag:shop=camera?

John Willis johnw at mac.com
Wed Jun 3 23:59:22 UTC 2015

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 3, 2015, at 10:46 PM, Marc Gemis <marc.gemis at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 11:50 AM, johnw <johnw at mac.com> wrote:
>> How many people are going to understand that I need a “wooden home goods” shop tag? There is an old traditional store that sells all the things for your house - from yard tools, to buckets, to bathtubs - made out of wood by an expert craftsman. They are not ornamental goods - you use them.  It is a Very Japanese store,
> Are you really going to use OSM for looking up those specialty stores and see whether they sell item X ? I rather search the internet. After I read the shop's website and verified they sell X, I take their address and name and use those in e.g. OsmAnd to get me to the place.
> Where would you end up otherwise ? Tag all breads and the days they are available in a bakery ? All softdrinks and their brands available in a supermarket ?
> Of course for more tourist related features (cafes, pubs, hotels, etc, ) it's nice that I can find them directly via OsmAnd POIs without research on the internet.
> So I wonder whether it is not enough to have some rough classification for the shops you are describing with links to their websites so one can do a full text search there to see whether the shop fulfils one needs.

Thanks for proving my point. 

This is a class of store - a previously very common type of store in Japan for the past couple hundred years - one that has disappeared with the industrial revolution - but can still be found. 

I don't have to explain why an ice cream shop definition is needed, nor mount a defense for having a tag for a tobacco shop (whatever the correct OSM tags are) because you are familiar with this class of store. 

Why is my wooden home goods store any less deserving of its tag than an ice cream shop? At one point in time, there were more of these japanese shops than all ice cream shops in the world.

Its because there is not one in Los Angeles or London.  

I know of 3 of them that existed just on my 7km route to work - two have been bulldozed recently, one is still open. but there are still many many of them throughout Japan still selling goods.  And there will never be one made outside of Japan (or least Asia)

What about a fixtures store? 
Toto (the maker of those famous Japanese toilets) has a huge number of chain stores that sell just bathroom and kitchen fixtures. They don't sell anything other than toilets, tubs, and sinks there. Its not a home store, nor a DIY store, nor a plumbing store (no pipes or whatnot) - they just sell fixtures and their installation. 

Can i create a "home store" category and have a "fixtures" subcategory?

What happens when I have a wooden goods store (sells all those goods, including giant wooden bathtubs) and Also is a toto fixtures dealer?

I want to tag them as a wooden goods shop and a fixtures shop. Its not very common of a shop - ive only seen one (like Pogs & Ammo), so how do i tag a store which is a combination of both? That is a fundamental problem with shop tagging in OSM that was easily solved by google by letting you put as many tags/ categories on a shop as the mapper deems it belongs to. 


How each culture slices up who-sells-what and who-does-what is similar thanks to westernized shops and modern industrial production and marketing - but there are still plenty of unique styles of shops that may be plentiful and deserving of their own tag is some regions - and having to justify their creation and inclusion to a group wholly unfamiliar with their existence means it is an uphill battle for localized tagging - which means OSM is just a tourist map for westerners - because uniformity in the data is more important than if the locals find the map or data useful... No one expects the map to cater to them anyways since their mapping conventions, categories, and iconography (rendering, data sorting, and labeling) are of secondary importance to the ability of people who don't live there to be able to understand it. 

I know this isn't a malicious thing - everyone wants to make a better map - but being an english centric project automatically creates these issues. 

Language support =/= cultural support 

Its been an uphill battle to get even the most basic (read: required) Japanese mapping conventions accepted. Traffic light rendering is still a big stinky pile of garbage. Kanji rendering is still really bad compared to Roman characters - both are being worked on by people better than me, but two down-voted proposals to get traffic light labeling/rendering "fixed" for SE asia shows where the priorities are for OSM/-carto.


> regards
> m
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