[Tagging] Proposed: landuse=civic_admin - looking for comments.

Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdreist at gmail.com
Mon Mar 9 11:49:30 UTC 2015

2015-03-09 6:55 GMT+01:00 johnw <johnw at mac.com>:

> current draft definition:
> A new landuse <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:landuse>=* value
> for civil government buildings & complexes where citizens or services for
> citizens are managed. This includes legislative and executive centers, as
> well as administrative offices for government programs and mixed-use
> governmental complexes, such as most "city hall" complexes.

I believe that city halls might be some sort of exception, as they often
have legislation space (municipal assembly) in common with the seat of the
mayor (executive), while on higher levels this is rarely the case (e.g.
white house and congress). In the example of the city of Berlin (which is
somehow an exception as well, as they are a "Land" and not just a city) you
also have these two functions in the same building:
BUT: they are not open to the citizen (save for touristic visits), the
services to the citizen are offered by lower level city halls (on lower
admin level for "districts" (Bezirk)).

> On Mar 8, 2015, at 9:01 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer <dieterdreist at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> I'd see "administration" as part of the executive power, although every
> bigger entity, be it private or public, legislative, executive or judicial,
> will have some administration part.
> If I knew nothing about the structure of government, just the buildings on
> the ground, I would notice that the “city hall” for many towns and small
> cities often (but not always) have combined complexes for both the assembly
> and mayor, and often offices for programs (national insurance, pension,
> taxes)
> but the courthouse and the punishment system is often never in that same
> complex - in my experince. Is that different in places you have seen?

the Tower of London comes to my mind, it is was a Royal palace as well as a
prison. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_London
Not the most recent example, but there might be more.

> I am referring to administration in the general sense - people administer
> a program to do something - issue car licensing or building permits,
> collecting money, etc, or are involved in the creation or decision making
> process of those programs (leaders, legislative bodies, school boards,
> water boards, etc)

it's this point, where we do not meet, to me administering stuff to do
something is different from legislation (setting up the rules according to
which administration works). Someone issuing a car license cannot decide
upon the rules, they are set up by a different entity which only sets up

> but the primary purpose of a standard courthouse has nothing to do with
> the creation or management of government programs. They are there for
> dispute resolution - between private parties, between the police and a
> citizen, between the government ant it’s people - but ultimately it is
> about dispute resolution - which could be civil or criminal.

in other words, to interpret the rules (based on the primary rules
(constitution), all the rules, past decisions, etc.) and applicate them to
the actual case.

> if - like most police stations, fire stations, and hospitals -  they sat
> on separate landuses, we wouldn’t be having this discussion - as a single
> landuse for executive, legislative, and judicial would not only be
> appropriate, but practical to implement as well.

maybe we don't need a landuse at all, we could just map what is there (e.g.
a courthouse, a prison, a city hall, a parking, etc.). If we want to map a
mixup of different such functions into a bigger entity, we could do that
also without a landuse value, e.g. amenity=civic_centre (BE Spelling).

> But it is impossible to implement a separate legislative and executive
> landuse because after mapping Washington DC, and a few capitol buildings,
> the first muli-use complex would make it fall apart - and the thousands of
> mixed-use city hall complexes in the US alone would make having separate
> landuses not practical, IMO.

I see.

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