[Tagging] Please don't think name_1 tags are errors.

Ralph Aytoun ralph.aytoun at ntlworld.com
Fri Jan 15 16:25:23 UTC 2016

I am quite in favour of people coming forward to discuss the possibility of 
improving the iD Editor if it is causing problems.

I object to the continuous use of naming new mappers as a problem. I will 
defend the reason for iD preventing new mappers from being given the option 
of inadvertently or erroneously deleting other mapper's work. At least until 
they understand what they are deleting.

New mappers have a lot to learn. They have enough of a problem just learning 
how to use the tools and finding out what basic tagging is without being 
inundated with error messages telling them they cannot save their work 
because of some technical fault. Let them save their work rather than it 
getting lost or they get so frustrated that they give up and walk away. And 
believe me when I say that they are nor learning bad tagging from the iD 
Editor because most new mappers will not understand what just happened or 
that the tag is different, they will just be grateful that their work has 
been saved and they can continue mapping.

To really understand the tagging requires a concerted study and even then it 
does not help. When I started a waterway=wadi was an accepted tag but within 
a period of three months it was deprecated by a group that did not really 
understand it's cartographic usage. Now we are left with intermittent=yes 
which does not adequately depict a dry river bed that is a natural feature 
but only occasionally (as opposed to regularly or seasonally) has flowing 
water. Throughout the arid countries we now have these features 
(wadi/ouadi/arroyo/dry gulch/ etc.) without an appropriate tag. So I would 
say, do not knock the new mappers, this area is a minefield of correctness 
... or incorrectness as the case may be ...
and we do not want to discourage new mappers.

I sympathise with the frustrations of the very experienced 
mappers/taggers/renderers but we have to remember that Openstreetmap has 
developed and grown with everyone being a new mapper at some stage. Please 
be tolerant of the new mappers so that they can grow with us and become the 
experienced mappers of the future... with our help.... not our criticism.

Please all have a Happy Mapping year and help this immense undertaking to 

-----Original Message----- 
From: moltonel 3x Combo
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 2:26 PM
To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
Subject: [Tagging] Please don't think name_1 tags are errors.

Hi, I've just reverted http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/36573638
where the mapper thought that name_1 tags were typos. That user is on
a key typo fixing spree, which is a good thing in itself, even if
mistakes happen.

But I wonder if some people know about the iD editor behavior below,
and assume that a name_1 tag must have been created that way ? If so,
consider this email as a reminder that the _N suffix is used on
purpose by many people. As always, contact the mapper if unsure.

On 09/01/2016, Hakuch <hakuch at posteo.de> wrote:
> **iD-Editor problem**
> unfortunately, the iD-editor is creating such prefixed tags and is
> training newbies to use them as a good tagging practice. When you use
> the raw-tag-editor and tries to add an already existing tag, iD does not
> throw any error or information but adds the tag with a suffixed number
> like _1 or higher.
> It suggests to the unexperienced mapper, that this is a usable method to
> add multiple values, although this suffixing is only made to prevent the
> user of deleting data.
> We still couldn't convince the developer, that this suffixing method
> leads new mappers to bad practice
> (https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/2896).

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