[Tagging] State parks and state forests: specific tagging question, general mapping philosophy

Dave Swarthout daveswarthout at gmail.com
Wed Jul 27 17:16:27 UTC 2016

@Kevin; I'm glad to see someone is interested in clearing up the mess in
the Adirondack Park and sorry to hear about your frustration concerning
rendering of the protected areas in NYS. Although I no longer hike in that
area because I moved to Alaska in 1983 I have a strong and continuing
interest in it because for many years that was where I went to go
wilderness camping. I've hiked the High Peak region and walked the
Northville-Placid Trail. The many Wilderness and Primitive areas tagged
with landuse=forest is clearly inaccurate but the massive amount of work
needed to actually trace the wooded areas, swamps and bare mountain tops
that make up those Wilderness areas in order to tag them properly has
prevented me from even getting started.

To me, the landuse=forest tag is meant for tree covered areas that are
being grown and managed to supply wood for construction, paper, or what
have you. I'm not going to step into the landcover=trees vs natural=wood
controversy except the say that in the styles I use with the mkgmap program
I render them identically. Also, I think perhaps using a separate set of
styles for the U.S., Europe, Japan, or elsewhere might be a suitable
solution to the various inconsistencies we find in the OSM renderings

I don't have any other input at the moment that will help you but I want to
thank you for your work so far and to encourage you to continue your effort
to resolve those issues.


On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 5:10 AM, Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org> wrote:

> Hi,
> On 07/27/2016 02:36 PM, Kevin Kenny wrote:
> > The part that I can't do anything about is getting hstore activated on
> > the main rendering database. That's a matter of turning a switch -
> > osmosis, osm2pgsql, mapnik, everything is ready for it - but this
> > problem isn't important enough for the amount of planning, testing and
> > downtime that would be needed to turn it.
> Who has told you that? I don't see (a) that everything is ready for it
> nor (b) that it would require any downtime. For example I'm running
> osm-carto with hstore and using views so I don't have to modify the
> style; but it hasn't been shown whether that would be a good approach
> for OSM or whether the carto style should be changed to use hstore
> columns directly.
> > Any change that
> > fundamental is a risk to the project
> It's a change that is more complicated than flicking a switch and other
> things might have priority, but "a risk to the project"? Really? Have
> you come up with that yourself or can you quote someone on that?
> > no issue that is important enough to justify the change will ever arise.
> There's quite a few people who have changes in waiting that are only
> possible with the hstore extension. Of course there lies a danger in
> that - without the excuse of "needs hstore", we might suddenly find
> ourselves having to cater to lots of niche requests, aka "if there's a
> tag to differentiate X and Y then I want to see that difference on the
> map!"
> > That leaves US users in a bit of a quandary, with only a few viable
> > choices: beef up openstreetmap.us <http://openstreetmap.us> to be the
> > public face of the project on this side of the ocean (a disaster from a
> > marketing perspective, to have two competing faces)
> I don't think so. In fact I would like to see more regional diversity in
> "faces", instead of everyone trying to cram their national specialities
> into one central mapping style.
> > I'm sorry if I'm prickly. I'm frustrated.
> I think you're just too impatient.
> Bye
> Frederik
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frederik at remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
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Dave Swarthout
Homer, Alaska
Chiang Mai, Thailand
Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
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