[Tagging] Deprecating of leisure=common and leisure=village_green

[Daniel Koć]

W dniu 02.12.2017 o 22:05, Pierre Béland pisze:
> OSM-Carto is to often thought for Western Europe and only the 
> developpers that contribute to the github project make decisions. I 
> would not base the Tagging decisions on what the various styles are 
> rendering.

It's a systematic bias we try to get rid of. One of the main goals of 
osm-carto is diversity and universality. I can talk about more specific 
examples if you want, but the most important problems are in short:

1. We lack the input from people outside the "global West". We try to 
ask for it in some clear cases like fonts and symbols, and this is where 
cultural differences are visible the most.

2. We have no tools currently to differentiate big cities rendering from 
the rural areas. This is correlated with urban areas distribution on the 
West and the rest of the world, so this is especially visible there and 
sounds like a cultural difference, but of course it makes it hard also 
in the West.

But again: osm-carto rendering is not a base to change tags, but rather 
visual indicator of some other problems, including tagging. The issue 
we're talking in this thread is not 1. nor 2. for example and we render 
them already, but these tags usage and meaning are questionable.

> And again, let's not think the Tag schema to reflect mainly the 
> Western Europe reality without any knowledge of the reality of the 
> rest of the world.

That's why I'm happy that I passed the message and people knowing the 
African or Asian reality let me know about how they use some tags. I'd 
like to have more input like that.

> While activating for the major OSM Responses since 2012, we often had 
> discussions on the leisure=common tag.  As said before, this is common 
> to have such place in the middle of villages in Africa. African 
> contributors and humanitarians deployed for humanitarian assistance 
> have always aggreed to use this tag.  How important this is in the 
> context of any humanitarian response?  This is a place where people 
> gather, where you can mount tents if necessary and deliver services.

Please note that these are separate things - that such places exist and 
how are they tagged.

I prefer them to be tagged clearly and not introduce confusion 
elsewhere. Rural/outdoor and urban environments are very different and 
it's best when the tag allows to see the differences when they are 
present. For me "leisure=common" does not look like a proper name when I 
read the discussion.

> new about deaths, injured people with no assistance. We then agree to 
> spot some common leisure space in the villages + add a specific 
> humanitarian event tag highligting this place could possibly be a 
> helicopter landing place.

We agree that such places should be tagged, but the current scheme is 
just poor. The problems I see (not counting misuse in the urban 
environment for the moment):

1. It's a multifunctional place, thus not belonging to a "leisure" space 
- marketplace is about retail and a helicopter landing is about 
transport and emergency probably
2. Both leisure=common and landuse=village_green could be used probably, 
so something is wrong with these schemes, because the choice sounds to 
be arbitrary. Both have clear deficiencies in this context: leisure is 
not the whole truth and this can be not a green area.

We want to express that it's:
- usually center of the village (which is just a geometrical property, 
so no additional tag is needed)
- marketplace area (amenity=marketplace is now even visible on osm-carto)
- common recreation area (we already have 
landuse/leisure=recreation_ground on osm-carto)
- it's a helicopter landing site (thus aeroway=helipad probably)
- emergency meeting point (we have emergency=assembly_point and is quite 
popular already!)

So maybe it'd be better to use already existing, but precise tags - or 
at least create better general tag (like "place=village_common" or 
"landuse=common_ground" for example)? Trying to stretch already 
existing, but not clear and troublesome local tags, is a bad thing.

> Please stop joking and try to think OSM as a Global Map. Do not 
> extrapolate from only your country mapping experience.

This is not a joke - everybody do it, since nobody knows the whole world.

The poor tag that can be good enough for a rural place (historical in 
Europe or current in Africa) can lead to bigger problems in the urban 
space and this is exactly the case. Let's work on making them clear and 
well defined to avoid the confusion!

-- 
"My method is uncertain/ It's a mess but it's working" [F. Apple]

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