[Tagging] shop=fuel

Marc Gemis marc.gemis at gmail.com
Thu Jan 19 12:30:34 UTC 2017

The main difference between the shop and highway example is that you
are stil listing a fixed number of properties of the road, unlike the
number of products.

There are a unlimited number of products sold via store. Furthermore
the brand, the price and packaging of those products might be
different, not to mention the exact specification of the product.
Furthermore there are one time offers as well as stock, availability
upon order, etc.

I wonder which problem you try to solve by adding some rough
categories of products that are available in the store beside the
common ones, locally understood under shop=x ?
Is it the "here is a list of items I want to buy, find me the least
number of shops I have to visit so I get the cheapest total price ?"

But what with the additional parameters: How detailed did I specify
the products (do I want a TV or model XYZ from brand ABC) ? I'm a
willing to buy a different brand of something to save x kms of travel
or euros. Do I need additional assistance to buy a piece of equipment
? Is the quality of the bread/meat/... higher in a certain store etc.
etc. Do I want fruit from local producers or is import from the other
side of the world ok ?

Is all this information included in the detail you mention ? Does this
information belong in OSM or some other database which can be linked
in one way or another with OSM ? Or is all of this needless as we will
all be buying all products via the internet within a couple of years ?

At this moment I fail to see which application can use the additional
data. I mean how would that application work in theory. What is the
input from the end-user, how is this translated to the data the
mappers provide etc, I'm not looking for a name like OsmAnd or maps.me
Do I really have to list the items I want to buy ? Isn't it easier to
have some idea of what the shops sells and say I need a bakery, a
butcher and a greengrocer ? Or bring me to supermarket ?



On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 9:17 PM, Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 19-Jan-17 06:48 AM, Marc Gemis wrote:
>> I thought we went through this discussion on sell or vending a couple
>> of months ago, where the fear was that we would start "importing" the
>> sales catalogue of shops and that it would be very hard to maintain.
> Yes. It was I who raised it.
> Those who object to such detail don't have to add it, use it ... many won't
> use certain OSM tags now as they have nothing to do with them.
> Some people on that thread requested more and more detail .. so I suggested
> ways that that could be done.
> Then others said that was too much detail ... and there people that wanted
> the detail dissipated in to the eather.
>> A vending machine typically sells 1 type of product, so there it is
>> more or less doable.
>> Still there will be people who would like to different between the
>> types of bread or brands of candy or sodas in vending machines and
>> start mapping that as well. Is this what we want ? Or is the current
>> level of detail sufficient ?
> Detail will get finer as time goes by.
> Look at the highway tag ... now has incline, smoothness, surface ...
> Progress is not necessarily good for all but will occur. If undirected it
> may well be uncoordinated.
> OSM is now getting 'sells' tags by individual names ... meaning there will
> be a lot of new tags that will need some thought.
> Examples of this are the present fuel, motorcycle and bicycle shops .. all
> separate sells tags that are individual schemes... little co-ordination.
> Consider having each highway type with separate ways of tagging smoothness
> motorways have evenness fine to poor
> tracks have roughness; very to little
> residential have smoothness 0 to 10
> That is where shops selling detail is headed.
>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 4:35 PM, joost schouppe
>> <joost.schouppe at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 2017-01-18 15:33 GMT+01:00 Dave Swarthout <daveswarthout at gmail.com>:
>>>> This tag started out being for a very specific type of shop that sells
>>>> only one item, motor fuel, in small volume containers. There is a need
>>>> to
>>>> keep shops of this type separate from large full-service facilities that
>>>> sell motor fuel in quantities large enough to refill cars or trucks. lt
>>>> has
>>>> now been expanded to include other types of fuel like kerosene and even
>>>> charcoal. Fine. That's logical and sensible.
>>>> But if you want to rework the tagging structure to handle such
>>>> borderline
>>>> cases as fuel shops that also sell bread, then I feel that would be
>>>> defeating the original purpose of this tag. Where will these additions
>>>> and
>>>> modifications stop? A logical but not particularly useful extension of
>>>> that
>>>> reasoning might involve redefining the entire structure of the shop tag
>>>> hierarchy by using shop=yes, bread=yes, Crest_brand_toothpaste=yes,
>>>> fuel:diesel=yes, knitting_supplies=yes, etc. etc.
>>> Well, I for one like to take a middle ground between what works now and
>>> what
>>> we will probably need in the future.
>>> Vending machines are mapped entirely according to this model, using
>>> vending:*=* . By the logic we used for shop=*, it should have been
>>> amenity=bread_vending_machine or amenity=vending_machine + bread=yes. The
>>> vending:* tagging style makes it easier to process all sorts of data, and
>>> easily allows further extension.
>>> I wouldn't say we should change shop tagging styles to that. I was merely
>>> taking the stated position that fuel shops should follow that structure
>>> to
>>> its logical conclusion. And I'm starting to think we might actually have
>>> to
>>> consider it to avoid ever further cluttering of the shop types.
>>> __
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