Jerry Clough - OSM
sk53_osm at yahoo.co.uk
Thu Oct 5 09:19:24 UTC 2017
Can I contribute to this debate?
AFAIK I invented memorial=war_memorial for the Project of the Week which coincided with 11th November 2010. I agonised a certain amount about the best tag (both because of issues mentioned here, and because it would apply to both historic=monument and historic=memorial). However, at the time there were next to no uses of the tag memorial. I did try and discuss this on IRC channels (eg with the Italian community)
As it stands this represents around a third of instances of the key, and I believe pre-dates other classes of meanings for memorial (see http://taghistory.raifer.tech/ and type some typical values in).
The original description page for the PotW makes it clear that the tag was intended for many different types of memorial (See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Project_of_the_week/2010/Nov_10):
- Gates (the Menin Gate)
- Ossuaries (common in Italy)
- Monuments (Vimy Ridge)
- Simple village memorials
- Public facilities (community halls, bridges etc)
- Places dedicated as a war memorial: 2 large areas in the centre of the English Lake District including the highest peak in England
I am personally not very keen on deprecating tags which represent such a significant fraction of the total usage of a key, as it is in effect changing the meaning of the key in the database (as opposed to its description in the wiki). However I share the sense of awkwardness with the dual meanings implicit in the use of the key. In general such tags have been disambiguated by adding colons. I'm not at all sure about memorial:theme (a proper tabulation of likely values is needed), but memorial:form (or something similar for plaque, wall etc) is easier. Note that in many cases the object will not need the form to be described if it is a building, man made structure etc).
My personal suggestions are:
- memorial:commemorates with values of person; event; war (or conflict); building ...
- just a simple war_memorial=yes (which perhaps fits better with the wide range of object which could be tagged).
As for arboreta, I have been wondering for some time about a garden tag for describing all the different features of large gardens, and arboreta are common features. The idea needs work, but would include arboretum, alpine, herbaceous, systematic & perennial beds, various kinds of glass houses, wild flower gardens, species collections etc.
From: Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com>
To: tagging at openstreetmap.org
Sent: Thursday, 5 October 2017, 5:27
Subject: Re: [Tagging] war_memorial
On 05-Oct-17 01:58 PM, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
Thanks everyone for your thoughts re arboretums
Why I brought this up - had a look at the historic=monument tag yesterday morning, which lead me to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/CheckTheMonuments & http://www.historic.place/themes/monuments/map.html.
That showed 4 monuments in my general area, 2 of which should apparently be memorials, 1 I'm not sure about & this one: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-28.00759/153.38376.
The "Regional Arboretum" is shown as a monument &, by the conversations here, almost certainly shouldn't be (maybe it should be a Memorial? - will have to get up there & check it out on the ground); while the "ADF Grove" is, almost certainly correctly, a Memorial.
Now, if the Regional Arboretum isn't actually marked as being a memorial to anybody / thing, & therefore not a memorial, how should it then appear in OSM? The Botanic Gardens as a whole are shown as landuse=recreation_ground; leisure=park. From a Google satellite shot https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-28.0070891,153.3834806,174m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en, the Regional Arboretum is only an open group of trees, so how should it be mapped?
It's definitely not intended for forestry / logging purposes, so it's not landuse=forest
It's hardly a forest, so not natural=wood
Doesn't produce anything so not landuse=orchard
Leisure=garden? Garden brings to mind flowers & bushes, not trees, but I guess it may still apply?
Sydney Royal Botanic Garden is tagged as
I think this is the best solution I have - not documented and no actual existence in the data base.
Way 21370319 (Nottingham Arboretum) is tagged as
this looks wrong to me .. the name may just be a description.
The Australian Canberra arboretum is tagged as
A quick look has arboretums tagged as
forest (!), conservation, grass (!), leisure=nature_reserve and probably other things.
Will be interesting to see where this goes.
I have mapped some 'local' memorials/monuments ...
including one to a cat (Trim - Matthew Flinders cat), one to the WW1 Australian horses.
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