[Tagging] When was the deprecation of location=kiosk for power=substation discussed?

marc marc marc_marc_irc at hotmail.com
Thu Apr 26 10:22:25 UTC 2018


if the "cabinet" is large enough for a person to enter,
it's better to use building=*
a cabinet only host hardware, it isn't git enought to allow a person to 
enter.
in both case location=kiosk is imho wrong.


Le 26. 04. 18 à 12:14, Peter Elderson a écrit :
> Looks like it's australian, to call a power substation a power kiosk. It 
> converts the high voltage to low voltage and distributes power to 
> households. Just 'kiosk' is confusing to me.
> Dutch: kiosk=small selling booth for small articles e.g. newspapers, 
> sweets, drinks. Mainly found on railway stations.
> 
> 2018-04-26 11:56 GMT+02:00 John Sturdy <jcg.sturdy at gmail.com 
> <mailto:jcg.sturdy at gmail.com>>:
> 
>     To me, as a native British-English speaker, "kiosk" doesn't seem to
>     be the right word for these.  A kiosk is normally something that
>     *is* large enough for a person to enter (typically, someone selling
>     something through a hatch).
> 
>     __John
> 
> 
>     On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 8:53 PM, José G Moya Y. <josemoya at gmail.com
>     <mailto:josemoya at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>         It was François Lacombe on this list 9n Jan 2, 2018.
>         El mié., 3 de enero de 2018 0:14, François Lacombe
>         <fl.infosreseaux at gmail.com <mailto:fl.infosreseaux at gmail.com>>
>         escribió:
> 
>             Hi,
> 
>             Regarding this location=kiosk topic, a discussion was opened
>             on talk page of power=substation key.
>             https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Kiosk_substations_in_street_cabinets
>             <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Kiosk_substations_in_street_cabinets>
> 
>             Since no big issue has been raised, I've updated mentionned
>             wiki pages (with French version when available) with
>             man_made=street_cabinet.
>             https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dtransformer#Location_values
>             <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dtransformer#Location_values>
>             https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:location
>             <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:location>
>             https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:substation%3Dminor_distribution
>             <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:substation%3Dminor_distribution>
>             https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Location
>             <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Location>
>             https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dstreet_cabinet
>             <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dstreet_cabinet>
> 
>             location=kiosk is not a recommended value anymore and it's
>             encouraged to replace it manually and carefully with
>             man_made=street_cabinet + street_cabinet=power
> 
>             location key can now be used everytime to give the right
>             substation/transformer's location, in cabinet or not.
>             We can have underground or indoor cabinets like this :
>             man_made=street_cabinet
>             street_cabinet=power
>             power=substation
>             substation=minor_distribution
>             location=underground or indoor or ...
> 
>             All the best
> 
>             François
> 
>             2017-11-04 11:45 GMT+01:00 François Lacombe
>             <fl.infosreseaux at gmail.com <mailto:fl.infosreseaux at gmail.com>>:
> 
>                 Hi
> 
>                 The man_made=street_cabinet key sounds suitable to map
>                 items described with power=substation + location=kiosk.
>                 They are actual small cabinets like those where no
>                 technician can enter to work (opposite of building) :
>                 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:10kV_trafo_kiosk.jpg
>                 <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:10kV_trafo_kiosk.jpg>
> 
>                 Street cabinet is the container while substation is the
>                 function.
> 
>                 Wiki example on this page gives follwing tags:
>                 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Examples
>                 <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Examples>
>                 power=substation
>                 substation=minor_distribution
>                 location=kiosk
> 
>                 I propose to update it as such :
>                 man_made=street_cabinet
>                 street_cabinet=power
>                 power=substation
>                 substation=minor_distribution
>                 location=pavement (or wherever the cabinet is located)
> 
>                 It works both for nodes or areas.
>                 Additionnal advantage is to get location=* back to give
>                 cabinet position instead of substation design (there was
>                 issues to tag underground kiosks for instance)
>                 There are 7k objects in db:
>                 https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/location=kiosk
>                 <https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/location=kiosk>
> 
>                 Pages to update are :
>                 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dtransformer#Location_values
>                 <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dtransformer#Location_values>
>                 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:location
>                 <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:location>
>                 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:substation%3Dminor_distribution
>                 <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:substation%3Dminor_distribution>
>                 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Location
>                 <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Location>
>                 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dstreet_cabinet
>                 <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dstreet_cabinet>
> 
>                 How do you feel about it ?
> 
>                 There are no need of a time consuming formal proposal to
>                 deal with this question.
>                 Without further coments, i will update wiki pages in 15
>                 days.
>                 No automated edits.
> 
>                 Thanks for your time
> 
>                 François
> 
> 
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> 
>         El mié., 25 de abril de 2018 21:32, Michael Reichert
>         <osm-ml at michreichert.de <mailto:osm-ml at michreichert.de>> escribió:
> 
>             Hi,
> 
>             while adding a substation to OSM yesterday I looked up the
>             possible
>             values of location=* and missed kiosk. A short glance in the
>             history
>             showes that it removed location=kiosk from the page on
>             2018-01-02. The
>             edit description mentions
>             man_made=street_cabinet+street_cabinet=power
>             as a replacement.
> 
>             https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:power%3Dsubstation&oldid=1542685
>             <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:power%3Dsubstation&oldid=1542685>
> 
>             location=kiosk was introduced by the approved Substation
>             Refinement
>             Proposal in 2013.
>             https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Substation_refinement#Substation
>             <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Substation_refinement#Substation>
> 
>             man_made=street_cabinet was introduced by the Street Cabinet
>             Proposal in
>             2014.
>             https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Street_cabinet
>             <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Street_cabinet>
>             This proposal does not mention substations or transformers
>             at all.
> 
>             I think that small substations are not street cabinets
>             because they are
>             much larger than street cabinets and are usually not located
>             on the
>             sidewalk but next to it on a separate area.
> 
>             I don't remember a discussion of this change, do you? If no,
>             I propose
>             to revert this change on the wiki.
> 
>             Best regards
> 
>             Michael
> 
> 
>             -- 
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Vr gr Peter Elderson
> 
> 
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