[Tagging] When was the deprecation of location=kiosk for power=substation discussed?

Andrew Davidson theswavu at gmail.com
Thu Apr 26 22:50:49 UTC 2018


https://www.ausgrid.com.au/Common/Customer-Services/In-your-neighbourhood/Network-projects/Kiosks-and-pillars/Kiosk-substations.aspx

Still wouldn't recommend the use of the word.

On 27/4/18 08:23, Warin wrote:
> The use of the word 'kiosk' may be a jargon use within the power industry?
> Or it could be that the size is similar to a normal 'kiosk'?
> Maybe the original user could provide some information as to the true 
> source?
> 
> On 26/04/18 20:33, nwastra wrote:
>> Australians also know a kiosk as a small selling booth for small 
>> articles e.g. newspapers, sweets, drinks often found on central city 
>> railway stations.
>>
>> N
>>
>> On 26 Apr 2018, at 8:22 pm, James <james2432 at gmail.com 
>> <mailto:james2432 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>> @Peter, Same here in Canada. No one calls a substation a kiosk here
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 26, 2018, 6:16 AM Peter Elderson, <pelderson at gmail.com 
>>> <mailto:pelderson at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Looks like it's australian, to call a power substation a power
>>>     kiosk. It converts the high voltage to low voltage and
>>>     distributes power to households. Just 'kiosk' is confusing to me.
>>>     Dutch: kiosk=small selling booth for small articles e.g.
>>>     newspapers, sweets, drinks. Mainly found on railway stations.
>>>
>>>     2018-04-26 11:56 GMT+02:00 John Sturdy <jcg.sturdy at gmail.com
>>>     <mailto:jcg.sturdy at gmail.com>>:
>>>
>>>         To me, as a native British-English speaker, "kiosk" doesn't
>>>         seem to be the right word for these.  A kiosk is normally
>>>         something that *is* large enough for a person to enter
>>>         (typically, someone selling something through a hatch).
>>>
>>>         __John
>>>
>>>
>>>         On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 8:53 PM, José G Moya Y.
>>>         <josemoya at gmail.com <mailto:josemoya at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>             It was François Lacombe on this list 9n Jan 2, 2018.
>>>             El mié., 3 de enero de 2018 0:14, François Lacombe
>>>             <fl.infosreseaux at gmail.com
>>>             <mailto:fl.infosreseaux at gmail.com>> escribió:
>>>
>>>                 Hi,
>>>
>>>                 Regarding this location=kiosk topic, a discussion was
>>>                 opened on talk page of power=substation key.
>>>                 
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Kiosk_substations_in_street_cabinets 
>>>
>>>
>>>                 Since no big issue has been raised, I've updated
>>>                 mentionned wiki pages (with French version when
>>>                 available) with man_made=street_cabinet.
>>>                 
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dtransformer#Location_values 
>>>
>>>                 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:location
>>>                 
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:substation%3Dminor_distribution
>>>                 
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Location
>>>                 
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dstreet_cabinet
>>>
>>>                 location=kiosk is not a recommended value anymore and
>>>                 it's encouraged to replace it manually and carefully
>>>                 with man_made=street_cabinet + street_cabinet=power
>>>
>>>                 location key can now be used everytime to give the
>>>                 right substation/transformer's location, in cabinet
>>>                 or not.
>>>                 We can have underground or indoor cabinets like this :
>>>                 man_made=street_cabinet
>>>                 street_cabinet=power
>>>                 power=substation
>>>                 substation=minor_distribution
>>>                 location=underground or indoor or ...
>>>
>>>                 All the best
>>>
>>>                 François
>>>
>>>                 2017-11-04 11:45 GMT+01:00 François Lacombe
>>>                 <fl.infosreseaux at gmail.com
>>>                 <mailto:fl.infosreseaux at gmail.com>>:
>>>
>>>                     Hi
>>>
>>>                     The man_made=street_cabinet key sounds suitable
>>>                     to map items described with power=substation +
>>>                     location=kiosk.
>>>                     They are actual small cabinets like those where
>>>                     no technician can enter to work (opposite of
>>>                     building) :
>>>                     
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:10kV_trafo_kiosk.jpg
>>>
>>>                     Street cabinet is the container while substation
>>>                     is the function.
>>>
>>>                     Wiki example on this page gives follwing tags:
>>>                     
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Examples
>>>                     power=substation
>>>                     substation=minor_distribution
>>>                     location=kiosk
>>>
>>>                     I propose to update it as such :
>>>                     man_made=street_cabinet
>>>                     street_cabinet=power
>>>                     power=substation
>>>                     substation=minor_distribution
>>>                     location=pavement (or wherever the cabinet is
>>>                     located)
>>>
>>>                     It works both for nodes or areas.
>>>                     Additionnal advantage is to get location=* back
>>>                     to give cabinet position instead of substation
>>>                     design (there was issues to tag underground
>>>                     kiosks for instance)
>>>                     There are 7k objects in db:
>>>                     
>>> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/location=kiosk
>>>
>>>                     Pages to update are :
>>>                     
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dtransformer#Location_values 
>>>
>>>                     https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:location
>>>                     
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:substation%3Dminor_distribution
>>>                     
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Location
>>>                     
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dstreet_cabinet
>>>
>>>                     How do you feel about it ?
>>>
>>>                     There are no need of a time consuming formal
>>>                     proposal to deal with this question.
>>>                     Without further coments, i will update wiki pages
>>>                     in 15 days.
>>>                     No automated edits.
>>>
>>>                     Thanks for your time
>>>
>>>                     François
>>>
>>>
>>>                 _______________________________________________
>>>                 Tagging mailing list
>>>                 Tagging at openstreetmap.org
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>>>
>>>
>>>             El mié., 25 de abril de 2018 21:32, Michael Reichert
>>>             <osm-ml at michreichert.de <mailto:osm-ml at michreichert.de>>
>>>             escribió:
>>>
>>>                 Hi,
>>>
>>>                 while adding a substation to OSM yesterday I looked
>>>                 up the possible
>>>                 values of location=* and missed kiosk. A short glance
>>>                 in the history
>>>                 showes that it removed location=kiosk from the page
>>>                 on 2018-01-02. The
>>>                 edit description mentions
>>>                 man_made=street_cabinet+street_cabinet=power
>>>                 as a replacement.
>>>
>>>                 
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:power%3Dsubstation&oldid=1542685 
>>>
>>>
>>>                 location=kiosk was introduced by the approved
>>>                 Substation Refinement
>>>                 Proposal in 2013.
>>>                 
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Substation_refinement#Substation 
>>>
>>>
>>>                 man_made=street_cabinet was introduced by the Street
>>>                 Cabinet Proposal in
>>>                 2014.
>>>                 
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Street_cabinet
>>>                 This proposal does not mention substations or
>>>                 transformers at all.
>>>
>>>                 I think that small substations are not street
>>>                 cabinets because they are
>>>                 much larger than street cabinets and are usually not
>>>                 located on the
>>>                 sidewalk but next to it on a separate area.
>>>
>>>                 I don't remember a discussion of this change, do you?
>>>                 If no, I propose
>>>                 to revert this change on the wiki.
>>>
>>>                 Best regards
>>>
>>>                 Michael
>>>
>>>
>>>                 --                 Per E-Mail kommuniziere ich bevorzugt
>>>                 GPG-verschlüsselt. (Mailinglisten
>>>                 ausgenommen)
>>>                 I prefer GPG encryption of emails. (does not apply on
>>>                 mailing lists)
>>>
>>>
> 
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> 
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