[Tagging] Put the name in sidewalks and cycleways

Nick Bolten nbolten at gmail.com
Sun Aug 5 18:10:05 UTC 2018


Thanks for the examples!

I've run into this issue as well, many times, and it's like I said: the
'name' tag is meant to answer the question 'what is the name of this
thing?', sidewalks themselves usually don't have names, and the street name
isn't the name of the sidewalk.

We've been trying to figure out ways to describe a sidewalk's relationship
to its street in OSM in the Seattle area, and have occasionally used the
'description' tag to add free-form text as a hint for people with vision
impairments, because there aren't any standard tags for associating
separately-tagged sidewalks (which are very useful) with streets. We've
also usually added the cardinal direction from the street, since this isn't
fun or reliable to infer automatically, e.g. "sidewalk on the NW side of
Jackson St".

There are two levels (at least) at which this could approached in terms of
developing a new tagging standard:
- If we only care about the street name from the sidewalk's perspective, we
could develop a standard for just that, e.g.
associated_street/street_name/sidewalk_of, etc.
- If we want to solve the general problem of knowing which sidewalks are
associated with which streets, we have to use a relation (barring any new
fundamental data primitives for associated data, like stable IDs).

This mirrors the associatedStreet approaches taken by different OSM
communities regarding addresses:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:addr vs
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:associatedStreet. Most of the
same pros/cons apply, though with sidewalks there is a lot more information
we want to know / map than the name, as it's a birectional question: given
a street segment, we want to know about its sidewalk(s), and given a
sidewalk, we want to know about its street. The downside is that relations
are more complex, and can have maintainability issues, but I think a
well-structured tagging standard would lend itself well to automated QA and
tagging tools.

Also, if you're interested in discussing / proposing these kinds of new
tags, it might make sense to make a thread just for that, so it stays
organized. Happy to help out if there's anything I can do to get the ball
rolling.

Best,

Nick

On Sun, Aug 5, 2018 at 9:59 AM Volker Schmidt <voschix at gmail.com> wrote:

> We have already a tag for footway/foot-cycle-ways/cycleways that indicates
> that the way is a sidewalk/sidepath:
>
>    - footway=sidewalk for footpaths ( 881747  in taginfo)
>    - path=sidewalk (1090 in taginfo) or path=sidepath (790 in taginfo)
>    for foot-cycle-ways
>    - cycleway=sidepath (2450 in taginfo)
>
> What could be added to make it work is something like
> sidewalk_of/sidepath_of=<name of street>
>
> On 5 August 2018 at 18:42, yo paseopor <yopaseopor at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Oks I will show you:
>>
>> http://bit.ly/2M2Ff6J > Cycle way with name , you can see the name of
>> the street when you are riding by it.
>> http://bit.ly/2M8VRK6 > sidewalk without name, you can see the order
>> without any indication of name (openroute use then the nearest, I think)
>>
>> The question is with a standard tagging scheme there is a way with these
>> tags:
>>
>> highway=residential
>> name= x name
>> oneway=no
>> sidewalk=both
>> lanes:forward=2
>> lanes:backward=2
>> cycleway=track
>> surface=asphalt
>> maxspeed=50
>> lit=yes
>>
>> In this scheme you will find all the things: the road, the sidewalks, the
>> cycleway, the lit...
>>
>> But If I want to be more specific (accesibility? cycleway propierties?)
>> then I have to divide it in other items and "group it" but Can I repeat
>> some tags? (yes I can, but with name ?  Why I have to group it in this way
>> and not other?
>>
>> for the road:
>>
>> highway=residential
>> lanes:forward=2
>> lanes:backward=2
>> width=8
>> name= x name
>> oneway=no
>> surface=asphalt
>> maxspeed=50
>> lit=yes
>>
>> for the sidewalk:
>>
>> highway=footway
>> footway=sidewalk
>> (name= x name) << yes or not?
>> surface=cobblestone
>> lit=yes
>> width=3
>>
>> for the cycleway:
>>
>> highway=cycleway
>> (name= x name) << yes or not?
>> lanes:forward=1
>> lanes:backward=1
>> oneway=no
>> sidewalk=both
>> cycleway=track
>> surface=asphalt
>> maxspeed=10
>> lit=yes
>> width=2.5
>>
>> Why the road is the only item I don't have any doubt to tag it with name=
>> ? Why the road is more important than the sidewalk or the cycleway? What is
>> more important : person, car or bike?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Salut i voreres
>> yopaseopor
>>
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