[Tagging] roundtrip

Peter Elderson pelderson at gmail.com
Mon May 28 09:52:50 UTC 2018


I agree that it sounds round, but looking at google results I find that
this use of circular route is extremely common.

2018-05-28 11:04 GMT+02:00 Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com>:

> I don't think 'circular' is the best word... implies round .. and at least
> some are not round.
> continuous_route?
> looped_route?
>
>
>
> On 28/05/18 18:24, Peter Elderson wrote:
>
> I think for waymarked circular trails the UK English meaning is not too
> far off. The waymarks and often available map/leaflet/booklet/description
> do indeed bring you back to the starting point. (Remember the walking_bus
> discussion?)
>
> Having said that, I think circular_route is more to-the-point, it targets
> the route itself instead of the service. I have asked the Dutch community
> for input on retagging roundtrip=yes (for foot/hiking/cycling routes) to
> circular_route=yes, and using closed_loop=yes for the purpose of validation.
>
> 2018-05-28 10:01 GMT+02:00 Jo <winfixit at gmail.com>:
>
>> I only saw the discussion in this thread, came to the conclusion I (and
>> probably many other Dutch and German speakers) had interpreted the meaning
>> completely wrong.
>>
>> The tag is indeed meaningless, as it stands. Especially for public
>> transport, where it really doesn't matter. We're describing itineraries.
>> For hiking/cycling it's a misnomer. So it would be good to phase it out.
>>
>> What I'm trying to accomplish, while we're doing that is to not only
>> replace it with circular_route, to indicate intent, but to also add a tag
>> that validators can use to perform validation.
>>
>> Jo
>>
>> 2018-05-28 9:54 GMT+02:00 Volker Schmidt <voschix at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Have you seen the discussion on the roundtrip tag [1]?
>>> It looks as if there are two different roundtrip concepts in use:
>>> For hiking or cycling routes it means that the route you follow brings
>>> you back to the starting point with the outwards route and the return route
>>> (mostly) different.
>>> in a traffic service round trip is often used to indicate a service
>>> "there and back"
>>> "roundtrip=yes|no" is an unfortunate choice of key as it has wo
>>> meanings, mainly ccording to which side of the Atlantic Ocean you are. but
>>> its in use about 25k times.
>>> It might have been better to have something like "loop=yes|no" for
>>> hiking and cycling routes.
>>> For bus|underground|tram lines it might have been better to use
>>> something like "geometry=linear|circular|..." for transportation routes.
>>>
>>> [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:roundtrip
>>>
>>> On 28 May 2018 at 08:52, Jo <winfixit at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> From what I gathered during this discussion, roundtrip is mostly
>>>> understood and used wrongly by mappers.
>>>>
>>>> It's also not something about the route, but rather about a passenger
>>>> who buys a ticket to come back the same way the same day/weekend and paying
>>>> the return fare on the same ticket (aller/retour - heen- en terug).
>>>>
>>>> So I went and downloaded all objects tagged with roundtrip. The one I
>>>> changed needed major clean up in its members anyway.
>>>>
>>>> So how do we get from a meaningless tag (roundtrip) to something that
>>>> actually has meaning for itineraries?
>>>>
>>>> I think that on the one hand we need a tag to describe what the user
>>>> can expect (get back to approximate initial position) and on the other hand
>>>> it would be nice (for validation purposes) to know if the ways in the
>>>> relation are supposed to form a closed loop.
>>>>
>>>> hence:
>>>> circular_route=yes
>>>> closed_loop=no
>>>>
>>>> for that particular bus route.
>>>>
>>>> Polyglot
>>>>
>>>> 2018-05-28 7:47 GMT+02:00 <osm.tagging at thorsten.engler.id.au>:
>>>>
>>>>> The real question, which as far as I can tell you haven’t answered,
>>>>> is: Does that same vehicle, after completing its route, start at the
>>>>> beginning of the same route again?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Based on your description, the route as mapped is A1->B->C->D->E->A2.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Can I get on at E, stay on the vehicle, and get off at B? (In which
>>>>> case I would expect that after finishing at A2, the vehicle goes to A1, and
>>>>> you can remain on board during that time. A2 may be (but doesn’t have to)
>>>>> an “exit only” and A1 and “entry only” stop).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If yes, then it is roundtrip=yes. And you shouldn’t just remove an
>>>>> existing tag that actually applies.
>>>>>
>>>>> If no, then the roundtrip=yes is wrong and should be removed.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Jo <winfixit at gmail.com>
>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, 28 May 2018 15:13
>>>>> *To:* Tag discussion, strategy and related tools <
>>>>> tagging at openstreetmap.org>
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Tagging] roundtrip
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> An example of a (bus) route that goes out and comes back to the same
>>>>> location. It's not circle shaped at all, but that shouldn't matter for
>>>>> circular route.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I removed roundtrip=yes and replaced it with
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> circular_route=yes
>>>>>
>>>>> closed_loop=no
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If the last way wouldn't be in there, closed_loop would be yes. But
>>>>> the first and the last bus stops are not exactly opposite one another.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Jo
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2018-05-27 6:22 GMT+02:00 Paul Johnson <baloo at ursamundi.org>:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 5:41 AM, Peter Elderson <pelderson at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I wish you a happy trip on that bus, hope it has toilets and a
>>>>> tolerable coffee machine
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh, you sweet, summer child.  Someone's never tried to take a suburban
>>>>> route in the US, even in a "transit oriented" American city...
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
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>
>
> --
> Vr gr Peter Elderson
>
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-- 
Vr gr Peter Elderson
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