[Tagging] roundtrip

Warin 61sundowner at gmail.com
Mon May 28 09:04:04 UTC 2018


I don't think 'circular' is the best word... implies round .. and at 
least some are not round.
continuous_route?
looped_route?



On 28/05/18 18:24, Peter Elderson wrote:
> I think for waymarked circular trails the UK English meaning is not 
> too far off. The waymarks and often available 
> map/leaflet/booklet/description do indeed bring you back to the 
> starting point. (Remember the walking_bus discussion?)
>
> Having said that, I think circular_route is more to-the-point, it 
> targets the route itself instead of the service. I have asked the 
> Dutch community for input on retagging roundtrip=yes (for 
> foot/hiking/cycling routes) to circular_route=yes, and using 
> closed_loop=yes for the purpose of validation.
>
> 2018-05-28 10:01 GMT+02:00 Jo <winfixit at gmail.com 
> <mailto:winfixit at gmail.com>>:
>
>     I only saw the discussion in this thread, came to the conclusion I
>     (and probably many other Dutch and German speakers) had
>     interpreted the meaning completely wrong.
>
>     The tag is indeed meaningless, as it stands. Especially for public
>     transport, where it really doesn't matter. We're describing
>     itineraries. For hiking/cycling it's a misnomer. So it would be
>     good to phase it out.
>
>     What I'm trying to accomplish, while we're doing that is to not
>     only replace it with circular_route, to indicate intent, but to
>     also add a tag that validators can use to perform validation.
>
>     Jo
>
>     2018-05-28 9:54 GMT+02:00 Volker Schmidt <voschix at gmail.com
>     <mailto:voschix at gmail.com>>:
>
>         Have you seen the discussion on the roundtrip tag [1]?
>         It looks as if there are two different roundtrip concepts in use:
>         For hiking or cycling routes it means that the route you
>         follow brings you back to the starting point with the outwards
>         route and the return route (mostly) different.
>         in a traffic service round trip is often used to indicate a
>         service "there and back"
>         "roundtrip=yes|no" is an unfortunate choice of key as it has
>         wo meanings, mainly ccording to which side of the Atlantic
>         Ocean you are. but its in use about 25k times.
>         It might have been better to have something like "loop=yes|no"
>         for hiking and cycling routes.
>         For bus|underground|tram lines it might have been better to
>         use something like "geometry=linear|circular|..." for
>         transportation routes.
>
>         [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:roundtrip
>         <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:roundtrip>
>
>         On 28 May 2018 at 08:52, Jo <winfixit at gmail.com
>         <mailto:winfixit at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>             From what I gathered during this discussion, roundtrip is
>             mostly understood and used wrongly by mappers.
>
>             It's also not something about the route, but rather about
>             a passenger who buys a ticket to come back the same way
>             the same day/weekend and paying the return fare on the
>             same ticket (aller/retour - heen- en terug).
>
>             So I went and downloaded all objects tagged with
>             roundtrip. The one I changed needed major clean up in its
>             members anyway.
>
>             So how do we get from a meaningless tag (roundtrip) to
>             something that actually has meaning for itineraries?
>
>             I think that on the one hand we need a tag to describe
>             what the user can expect (get back to approximate initial
>             position) and on the other hand it would be nice (for
>             validation purposes) to know if the ways in the relation
>             are supposed to form a closed loop.
>
>             hence:
>             circular_route=yes
>             closed_loop=no
>
>             for that particular bus route.
>
>             Polyglot
>
>             2018-05-28 7:47 GMT+02:00
>             <osm.tagging at thorsten.engler.id.au
>             <mailto:osm.tagging at thorsten.engler.id.au>>:
>
>                 The real question, which as far as I can tell you
>                 haven’t answered, is: Does that same vehicle, after
>                 completing its route, start at the beginning of the
>                 same route again?
>
>                 Based on your description, the route as mapped is
>                 A1->B->C->D->E->A2.
>
>                 Can I get on at E, stay on the vehicle, and get off at
>                 B? (In which case I would expect that after finishing
>                 at A2, the vehicle goes to A1, and you can remain on
>                 board during that time. A2 may be (but doesn’t have
>                 to) an “exit only” and A1 and “entry only” stop).
>
>                 If yes, then it is roundtrip=yes. And you shouldn’t
>                 just remove an existing tag that actually applies.
>
>                 If no, then the roundtrip=yes is wrong and should be
>                 removed.
>
>                 *From:*Jo <winfixit at gmail.com
>                 <mailto:winfixit at gmail.com>>
>                 *Sent:* Monday, 28 May 2018 15:13
>                 *To:* Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
>                 <tagging at openstreetmap.org
>                 <mailto:tagging at openstreetmap.org>>
>                 *Subject:* Re: [Tagging] roundtrip
>
>                 An example of a (bus) route that goes out and comes
>                 back to the same location. It's not circle shaped at
>                 all, but that shouldn't matter for circular route.
>
>                 I removed roundtrip=yes and replaced it with
>
>                 circular_route=yes
>
>                 closed_loop=no
>
>                 If the last way wouldn't be in there, closed_loop
>                 would be yes. But the first and the last bus stops are
>                 not exactly opposite one another.
>
>                 Jo
>
>                 2018-05-27 6:22 GMT+02:00 Paul Johnson
>                 <baloo at ursamundi.org <mailto:baloo at ursamundi.org>>:
>
>                     On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 5:41 AM, Peter Elderson
>                     <pelderson at gmail.com <mailto:pelderson at gmail.com>>
>                     wrote:
>
>                         I wish you a happy trip on that bus, hope it
>                         has toilets and a tolerable coffee machine
>
>                     Oh, you sweet, summer child. Someone's never tried
>                     to take a suburban route in the US, even in a
>                     "transit oriented" American city...
>
>
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> -- 
> Vr gr Peter Elderson
>
>
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