[Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - boundary=aboriginal_lands

[Paul Johnson]

On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 5:59 AM Paul Allen <pla16021 at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 1:55 AM Doug Hembry <doughembry at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> But seriously, how many aboriginal lands do you think a mapper would
>> have to tag before they remember "protect_class=24"?
>>
>
> How many mappers handle nothing but aboriginal lands?  Are there so many
> aboriginal lands
> that even one mapper could deal with those and have time for nothing
> else?  I'd guess that most
> mappers try to deal with everything in a locality they're mapping.  But
> protected areas are rare
> and you're asking people to remember ALL of those magic numbers in case
> they come across
> a nature reserve, or aboriginal land, or any of dozens of other things.
>

I'd imagine this is considerably more common in Oklahoma and the desert
southwest than most places, it's quite a long drive to get out of
aboriginal lands from where I live.  As a result, HDYC shows that my area
of primary focus <http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?Paul%20Johnson> is entirely
within the Osage Nation
<https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4218876#map=10/36.5813/-96.5327>,
Cherokee
Nation <https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/8116055> and Muscogee Nation
<https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/8116054>.  You basically have to
stay north of Fort Sill and west of I 35 (to greatly oversimplify complex
boundaries) to stay away from aboriginal lands in Oklahoma.

And, as for the future archaeologists, and "human readable": Correct use
>> of the boundary=protected_area tag actually requires the use of
>> protect_title=* tag that provides users with the human readable title of
>> this area-type (note: not the "name", which may also be present). ie,
>> protect_title= Indigenous Protected Areas, or Indian Reservations, or
>> Terra Indigena, or Territorio Indigena, etc,..
>
>
> The protect_title is duplicating information in the class.  So you're
> asking a mapper to type in
> (and possibly get wrong) what should be a look-up mechanism.  Either
> protect_title is unnecessary
> or protect_class is.  Unless, of course, protect_class is so broad that
> protect_title is needed to
> flesh it out, in which case protect_class is useless.
>

Not to mention in practice, this is something of a misnomer for most tribes
in the US.  WaPo has an op-ed
<https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2018/11/28/half-land-oklahoma-could-be-returned-native-americans-it-should-be/>
about a pending SCOTUS case on this, that has a nonzero chance of redrawing
state lines and affecting national autonomy for tribes..


> The "numbers are bad" assertion worries me and prompts a broader question:
>> if this is "policy",
>
>
> It is not (as far as I am aware) a policy.  It is the feeling of a number
> of people here that magic
> numbers are a bad idea.  I suspect that many of those people base that
> feeling, as I do, upon
> experience of programming and/or user interface design.
>
>
>> does it mean that boundary=protected_area, and protect_class=* tags are
>> doomed in OSM?
>
>
> I wouldn't say they're doomed, but I doubt they'll get universal adoption
> as the primary way of
> tagging such things, particularly if tags such as aboriginal_lands gain
> approval.  This discussion
> isn't the first time I came across protect_class etc.  Some time ago I
> looked at how to map a
> nature reserve and saw the choices were incomprehensible mess of
> protect_class and friends
> or leisure=nature_reserve.  Guess which one I chose.
>
> I have no objection whatsoever if you wanted to introduce a tag like
> IUCN=*.  In fact, I think it
> would be a great idea.  Mappers who care about it could use it.  Queries
> with overpass-turbo
> could use it.  Nice idea.  But protect_class and friends?  Nah.
>

As an aside, no, I'm not married to how those nations are tagged right now,
it's just where we seemed to be at after the last time this came up.  I
think it's a messy hack and not orthagonal to being readily human
understandable.  I can talk to my sister who knows next to nothing about
OSM other than Craigslist uses it, ask her what highway=primary likely is,
and get either a good answer or a spot-on answer.  If I asked her about
protect_class=24, I'm pretty sure she'd be dumbfounded.  Plus it falls into
a part of the complaints I had the first time it came up
<https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2013-April/066766.html>.
Given the context of what I'm familiar with, it's actually amazing to me we
haven't put this in the boundary=administrative column as we have with
other political boundaries.
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