[Tagging] Greengrocer vs grocery vs shop=food?

Tue Oct 9 10:02:45 UTC 2018

You know, some people have advocated for a tag or, more properly, a set of
tags that can enumerate the items sold by a given shop. The tag set uses
the key "sells:*=yes/no. So if a given shop sells Korean food, one could
tag it as shop=food (or shop=convenience or grocery, or general) and
sells:korean_food=yes, or sells:pierogi=yes, etc.. The list can be as long
as one wants and the items sold can be queried via search engines or what
have you. A similar scheme has been proposed for bicycle and motorcycle
shops that employ the service:bicycle:*=yes/no tag set so one can tag
service:bicycle:repair=yes/no, service:bicycle:rental=yes/no, etc.

I'm not advocating this scenario but thought it might be of interest. I do
think it would be nice to have some overriding methodology to govern the
construction of these new tags we keep wanting to invent.

The sells key only has a few uses so far but for some reason it appeals to
me; here's the Taginfo link:
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=sells

The service proposal is here:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/service:bicycle

Cheers,

Dave

On Tue, Oct 9, 2018 at 4:33 PM Joseph Eisenberg <joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com>
wrote:

> If you think the specialty shops should have there own tag, we could start
> using shop=specialty_grocery
>
> But I would like someone from England to confirm if this is the specific
> British term.
>
> I’m ok with using shop=general for the small shops in developing
> countries, if we can edit the wiki to allow use in towns and cities.
>
> I don’t believe there is shop=market tag yet. There is amenity=marketplace
> for public markets, found in old town centers in Europe but much more
> common in the developing world. Probably shop=market would be too easily
> confused with marketplaces.
> On Tue, Oct 9, 2018 at 5:42 PM John Willis <johnw at mac.com> wrote:
>
>> sounds like there are several different kinds of shops being discussed
>>
>>
>> - old old “markets”, from before there were super markets or convenience
>> shops.
>>
>> - import/foreign foods shops catering to a local minority population or
>> special cultural interest
>>
>> - “markets” in developing countries.
>>
>>
>> On Oct 9, 2018, at 11:56 AM, Joseph Eisenberg <joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> What do you think about the need for a shop=grocery tag for small shops
>> in developing countries and specialty grocers in cities?
>>
>>
>> Are there still small groceries in Japan which sell non-perishable food
>> items, but would not be properly considerd a shop=convenience,
>> shop=general, shop=greengrocer or shop=supermarket?
>>
>>
>> I know the shops that you speak of. They were the local “everyday needs”
>> shop - the market/grocery shop, very similar to a general store - but in an
>> urban area. they were the only shop that had some of everything that wasn't
>> covered by the Rice shop, fish shop, the butcher, and the produce stand:
>>  curry mix, spices, dish soap, eggs, milk, toilet paper, etc. they would be
>> shop=market, if that exists.They still exist in Japan, but are almost gone.
>> The mom-n-pop ones are operated by people that live over the shop, and they
>> are still operated for the locals to come sit there and gossip - but
>> everyone goes to the supermarket 3 minutes away. they never look like they
>> sell anything, and most have been shuttered, but a few are still there.
>>  the only corner market I knew of was there are a few shop=general out in
>> the mountains - but all the “markets” were put out of business by
>> supermarkets a long time ago in California. I know of only one from
>> personal experience. I hear of the “corner shop” or “bodegas” in New York -
>> similar to the little corner market Bullitt buys his frozen dinners from in
>> the movie in San Francisco - they seem to be disappearing in developed
>> countries.
>>
>> They are the proto-market: the Convenience store is more convenient, they
>> have no departments, they are not specific enough to be a greengrocer nor
>> have a stock of blankets, bullets, motor oil, and firewood like a general
>> store - they are the “daily market”, not a giant supermarket - the corner
>> store.
>>
>> a small market for daily living in developing countries feels like it
>> would be a shop=general - a general store has a certain feeling when it is
>> the only retail building in 40 miles in any direction, perhaps that is
>> similar to the developing country shops.
>>
>> I think shop=general for the small developing countries’ markets or these
>> fading local markets would be a good kludge, but it is not a fit **at all**
>> for some specialty shop in a big city.
>>
>> Mediterranean groceries or Caribbean foods, as found in some big cities.
>>
>>
>> This is a great question. there are all kinds of [asian country] markets
>> in San Diego, and there are Philippine, Brazilian, and “Halal foods” shops
>> here in my area of Japan. There are also chain shops catering to “foreign
>> foods” : American snacks, British mints, South American Coffee, Italian
>> pasta, etc. they almost always are around food.
>>
>> if there is a convenience store, a supermarket, a “halal foods” shop, and
>> a butcher shop on the same block - that isn’t 4 “markets” - I think the
>> idea of a “foreign foods" market is good - and then choose a theme or
>> country, or religion, or similar tag would work.  . I don’t know how that
>> aspect would be tagged - but the type of shop - the “import goods from some
>> far off place catering to a minorty group that lives in the region” is a
>> very very common occurrence, and very very rarely considered by the
>> majority residents to be a place to go shopping (they all shop at the
>> supermarket, as their ethnic and culturally specific goods are stocked
>> there). I think having a shop=halal and a shop=Japanese would be wrong - as
>> the only place they would be used is outside those areas, and confusing for
>> people inside those areas.
>>
>> If we try to come up with a tag that fits all these uses, it won’t fit.
>> We need to create shop=* tags to fit these separately.
>>
>> Javbw
>>
>>
>>
>>
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-- 
Dave Swarthout
Homer, Alaska
Chiang Mai, Thailand
Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
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