[Tagging] Traffic_sign discussion

Colin Smale colin.smale at xs4all.nl
Tue Oct 9 18:15:50 UTC 2018

I can think of a couple of non-trivial cases which will need to be

1) multiple signs on a single post 

2) signs with a dependent (qualifier) sign, such as "except for buses" 

3) one or more signs on a larger panel - too large to represent as a

4) signs applying only to certain lanes 

5) signs on a gantry above (half of) the road 

I can understand the argument for mapping the signs as objects in their
own right. This would be limited to being a database of street
furniture, unless and until the effect of the signs can be linked to the
effect they have on traffic (in the broadest sense), which is the
starting point for the present discussion. This is of course a serious
exercise to ensure the link from the sign to the effect is represented

We already have turn restrictions, maxspeed, maxheight etc on the ways
themselves (without needing to have any link to a sign). This model
works reasonably well for routing applications, albeit not without some
discussion about the types of "weight" and so on. 

The point I am trying to make, is that there might not be much of a
"business case" for linking the signs/posts to their effects, and that
mapping them as "street furniture" might be going far enough... 

On 2018-10-09 17:42, yo paseopor wrote:

> I want to start the mother of all discussions about traffic signs 
> It is not the first attempt to do that. Last days, with iD implementation and my message I have think it was the solution. Also I have waited some days and communicate to this list my intentions to adopt the proposed iD scheme. But when I start to do the modifications... People complains about it (I am sorry if there was some errors "translating" to the new scheme). 
> So Please , let's talk about it. What will be the correct way to tag a traffic sign? 
> I start with my option. Traffic sign as a NODE on the way x direction. Because traffic sign is relative to the way, the road, not the building or the street itselfs, it is located above, as a road mark, on the right of the road or on the left of the road (or both of them). 
> I'm interested in all countries so a good way to do it is with the country code for every traffic sign you can find in every traffic law in every country.  
> It would be interesting also to develope a generic scheme for tagging it (not only the country/code) 
> traffic_sign=XX:yyy (XX Country ISO code):(yyy ref or number in specific of each country traffic signs law) 
> Also it is facing to the direction of the way (forward and backward). In OSM ways have the direction you have drawn it. So the info is relative to this direction. 
> As an issue detected in iD with it to make possible the edition of traffic signs good way was the traffic_signals solution: an specific key. 
> traffic_sign:direction=forward/backward/both 
> Also accepts other facing directions like 90/270... 
> Also we need the info relative to the way of its location , the side where it is: Is it on the right? Is it on the left?  
> side=right/left/both 
> And also position, because you can have more than one traffic sign. Finnish people give the solution :2 
> traffic_sign:2=* 
> To tag this we have some informations sources (of course first of all local knowledge) like Mapillary or OpenStreetCam. 
> Tools we have now: 
> JOSM preset 
> JOSM style 
> JOSM Kendzi3D's configuration files and models 
> Leaflet traffic signs map 
> Taginfo stats 
> More info about it : 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Extended_traffic_signs_tagging 
> Main characteristics of the scheme: 
> -Scalable (you can locate every traffic sign in every place) 
> -Exportable (you can locate every traffic sign of every country in the World, with or without JOSM wizards) 
> -1 key / 1 value (for making the renders easy to adopt it) 
> yopaseopor 
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