[Tagging] Traffic_sign discussion

yo paseopor yopaseopor at gmail.com
Tue Oct 9 21:40:24 UTC 2018

On Tue, Oct 9, 2018 at 8:16 PM Colin Smale <colin.smale at xs4all.nl> wrote:

> I can think of a couple of non-trivial cases which will need to be handled:
> 1) multiple signs on a single post
  As Finnish people do we can add subkey :2 :3 :4... (European regulations
does nit recommend more than 3 traffic_signs together to make better their

> 2) signs with a dependent (qualifier) sign, such as "except for buses"
 Complementary signs are also traffic signs (in second, in third position)
with its own code, so they need their information (the same osm tags we
have for ways?)  and position. A few weeks ago in this list I talk about
the possible changes for "designation" value to make a key with this more
specific information

> 3) one or more signs on a larger panel - too large to represent as a node
Sorry but I don't agree with you... because I test it...and it works.
Example for a complete destination traffic sign

colour:arrow black
colour:arrow:lower_panel white
colour:back white
colour:back:lower_panel blue
colour:ref red
colour:ref:lower_panel blue
colour:text white
colour:text:lower_panel white
destination:lower Coma-ruga
destination:lower_panel Barcelona
destination:lower_panel:lower Aeroport
destination:lower_panel:upper Vilanova i la GeltrĂș
destination:symbol:lower_panel:lower airport
destination:upper El Vendrell
length <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:length?uselang=en> 500
ref <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ref?uselang=en> N-340
ref:lower_panel C-32
side up
time:1 00:05
time:3 00:05
time:b 01:00
time:b:1 00:20
time:b:3 00:45
traffic_sign:2:forward ES:S235a
traffic_sign:forward ES:S235a
turn:destination under
turn:destination:lower_panel under
type <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:type?uselang=en>

> 4) signs applying only to certain lanes
you can specify the lanes and the exact information with all these tags
(lanes scheme already exists)

> 5) signs on a gantry above (half of) the road
The example above is like the granty sign (with the same tags)

> I can understand the argument for mapping the signs as objects in their
> own right. This would be limited to being a database of street furniture,
> unless and until the effect of the signs can be linked to the effect they
> have on traffic (in the broadest sense), which is the starting point for
> the present discussion. This is of course a serious exercise to ensure the
> link from the sign to the effect is represented unambiguously.
Barrier nodes acts in routing, why not the prohibition in overtaking? or
the city limit? or the warnings?

> We already have turn restrictions, maxspeed, maxheight etc on the ways
> themselves (without needing to have any link to a sign). This model works
> reasonably well for routing applications, albeit not without some
> discussion about the types of "weight" and so on.
Signs are a next level for routing, for GPS software. Why Street View cars
and software wants to recognize traffic signs? Why don't you have the
possibility to have the traffic signs recreated in your own screen, with
only OSM data in a node?

> The point I am trying to make, is that there might not be much of a
> "business case" for linking the signs/posts to their effects, and that
> mapping them as "street furniture" might be going far enough...
More than 30 countries, more than 24000 different traffic signs. In each
country with their own traffic signs...why not? Are street lamps important?
Are recycle bins important? Are Benchs important?

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