[Tagging] hydrants

bkil bkil.hu+Aq at gmail.com
Wed Oct 10 06:07:58 UTC 2018


Yes, it was me who added that key to the wiki page, because it was
mentioned in one of our Hungarian documents some years ago and also I
wanted to use it.

I admit to my error in not noticing the latest proposals earlier. I've
just recently joined this list and I've specifically asked this here
in order to correct my error. I volunteer to fix previous tags with
whatever we come up with as a replacement.

In my defense, do note that the proposal process is only one way to
start using new tags:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Any_tags_you_like
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Just_Map
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_Practice#Document_your_custom-tags
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Joto/How_to_invent_tags
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposal_process
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/New_Features

Of course, I agree that if a proposal process is underway in a
specific area, it is much more productive to pool our focus to the
given process instead of doing ad hoc extensions in parallel.

I would definitely tag this property, because it is possible to break
a hydrant with the huge keys that are used to open it if it is rusty
and you are forcing it in the wrong direction. In Hungary, I've seen
both opening directions fairly often, though I don't have exact stats
as of now. Official fire fighters here have their own (closed)
database of hydrant here and the vehicles also store a great amount of
water so OSM is not useful to them in this aspect. Pressure is not
indicated on plates, only diameter, but as that is not correlated
reliable with pressure, they usually do not decide based on that, so
this property is not useful either. I think that opening direction is
the more useful property of the two, though the local community maps
all data from the plates.

I don't have strong preferences for the exact key, but in the value
part, I would like to see something that mirrors the plate that is
depicting either clockwise or counterclockwise. I don't have a strong
preference regarding abbreviation, although I guess it would be more
accessible when typed in fully.

Regards

On Tue, Oct 9, 2018 at 10:34 PM Viking <viking81 at tin.it> wrote:
>
> Bkill, you added fire_hydrant:opening to wiki page [0], but you should have discussed it here and/or in discussion page before.
> We did many efforts to widely discuss fire hydrant extensions [1] and finally approve them: you should at least discuss your proposal with people who spent so much time in this project.
>
> Anyway, as a firefighter, I have to say that the opening direction is a marginal tag for firefighting purposes, because you don't need to know this information to choose on a map which hydrant to use to refill the fire engine.
> But if you still want to add this information, we need to refine it, for this reason discussion is important.
>
> The use of handedness=right / left is prone to error.
> Normally on hydrants it is indicated the direction of opening and usually it is counterclockwise. But technically these hydrants' valves have right-hand threads (right handedness): you turn it clockwise to tighten the valve and close the hydrant.
> So if you read on a hydrant the counterclockwise opening direction, you should tag it with handedness=right. This creates confusion to a normal mapper.
>
> direction=clockwise/counterclockwise has similiar problem: you can intend it as the opening direction or as the thread direction (closing direction).
>
> On the other hand, fire_hydrant:opening=cw / ccw is not self-explanatory, because someone can intend it as the number of openings (couplings).
>
> Personally I would not add this tag at all.
> But, if you still want to add this information, I think that something like:
>
> opening:direction=clockwise / counterclockwise
>
> As we did for most of the tags in [0], I would not use fire_hydrant: prefix because we want a slim database and because  opening:direction=* is (or can be) used for other objects, as doors, taps, etc.
>
> [0] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:emergency%3Dfire_hydrant
> [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Fire_Hydrant_Extensions_(part_2)
>
> Best regards,
> Alberto
>
>
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