[Tagging] Slow vehicle turnouts

Tobias Wrede list at tobias-wrede.de
Thu Sep 6 12:56:57 UTC 2018


I've just come back from three weeks vacation in the Sierra Nevada with 
an RV. I've used turnouts there extensively. Mostly, they were long 
enough to me not having to stop while I let the traffic pass. But there 
were also the occasional ones (marked) that were just a 10m paved patch 
next to the normal lane.

In Sweden they have a lot of 2+1 roads and they seem to become popular 
with planners in Germany, too 
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2%2B1_road). Basically, it's a 
permanently alternating long turnout. :-) I would be overshooting to 
explicitly mark every two lane bit as a turnout or passing lane.

I favor the idea of marking turnouts, passing lanes and 2+1 roads all 
the same by using the lanes tagging scheme. For explicit (short) 
turnouts we might want to create a new value for turn:lanes=pass or 
something like that.


Am 05.09.2018 um 03:13 schrieb Dave Swarthout:
> @Warin, Thanks for clearing up my confusion about passing places. 
> These turnouts are definitely not the same. A vehicle should never 
> stop in one. They are about 1/4 mile long and some but not all have 
> painted lines to separate the highway proper from the turnout lanes. 
> In the U.S., where we drive on the right, such lanes are always on the 
> right-hand side of the highway, and although they aren't signed as one 
> way, it's sensible to include that tag IMO. In practice, a slow-moving 
> vehicle turns off the main highway, slows down enough to allow 
> following vehicles time to pass on the left, after which it returns to 
> the main highway.
> Given that the passing_place tag defines the situation you describe, 
> and indeed was created to model it, I'm not sure modifying its 
> definition to include ways would be a good idea. In addition, the term 
> "passing" or, in the EU, "overtaking", implies that the passing 
> vehicle does so on the left (U.S.) while these turnouts are always on 
> the right. Hence my reluctance to redefine that tag.
> Dave
> On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 6:55 PM Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com 
> <mailto:61sundowner at gmail.com>> wrote:
>     On 04/09/18 21:04, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
>>     2018-09-04 12:42 GMT+02:00 Dave Swarthout
>>     <daveswarthout at gmail.com <mailto:daveswarthout at gmail.com>>:
>>         Summarizing recent comments:
>>         Martin wrote:
>>         > what’s wrong with passing place? Seems to describe the same thing
>>         I thought so too until I noticed that the Wiki says
>>         passing_place is used for nodes only, using logic that
>>         escapes me, so I began searching for another method. I also
>>         considered modifying that definition so it includes ways but
>>         was reluctant to start that battle even though that still
>>         seems a good solution.
>>     I would be in favor of adding the possibility to tag
>>     highway=passing_place on ways, there is already a tiny fraction
>>     tagged on ways (although the percentage currently makes it clear
>>     they are outliers). There's a general problem with using nodes
>>     for features like these: they don't have a direction, so you
>>     can't state where the widening takes place.
>     Passing places are not long.
>     Most of them are just long enough to squeeze in a car and caravan
>     ... just.
>     You are supposed to come to a complete stop to let others pass in
>     either direction.
>     They are usually on single lane, two way roads.
>     So a passing place .. you have to stop in it. You cannot keep
>     moving as you would with any distance of extra lane.
>>     For the lanes approach: I would only use this if the place has
>>     some length (more than 5-10 meters you may typically find on a
>>     track) AND if there are lane markings (general requirement for
>>     lanes).
>>     Cheers,
>>     Martin
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> -- 
> Dave Swarthout
> Homer, Alaska
> Chiang Mai, Thailand
> Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
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