[Tagging] Slow vehicle turnouts
Warin
61sundowner at gmail.com
Sat Sep 8 00:29:29 UTC 2018
If the short 'passing_place' is tagged the same as a longer lane .. then
how is it distinguished?
You cannot count on the mapper to mark the length of it every time.
So a 100 meter one could have the same tagging as a 10 meter one. That
is not good.
I think the present tag of passing_place needs to be retained with the
present definition.
If the use of the lanes tag or a separate service road tag is not good
enough for these longer 'turn outs' then there needs to be some new tag.
On 06/09/18 22:56, Tobias Wrede wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I've just come back from three weeks vacation in the Sierra Nevada
> with an RV. I've used turnouts there extensively. Mostly, they were
> long enough to me not having to stop while I let the traffic pass. But
> there were also the occasional ones (marked) that were just a 10m
> paved patch next to the normal lane.
>
> In Sweden they have a lot of 2+1 roads and they seem to become popular
> with planners in Germany, too
> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2%2B1_road). Basically, it's a
> permanently alternating long turnout. :-) I would be overshooting to
> explicitly mark every two lane bit as a turnout or passing lane.
>
> I favor the idea of marking turnouts, passing lanes and 2+1 roads all
> the same by using the lanes tagging scheme. For explicit (short)
> turnouts we might want to create a new value for turn:lanes=pass or
> something like that.
>
> Tobi
>
>
> Am 05.09.2018 um 03:13 schrieb Dave Swarthout:
>> @Warin, Thanks for clearing up my confusion about passing places.
>> These turnouts are definitely not the same. A vehicle should never
>> stop in one. They are about 1/4 mile long and some but not all have
>> painted lines to separate the highway proper from the turnout lanes.
>> In the U.S., where we drive on the right, such lanes are always on
>> the right-hand side of the highway, and although they aren't signed
>> as one way, it's sensible to include that tag IMO. In practice, a
>> slow-moving vehicle turns off the main highway, slows down enough to
>> allow following vehicles time to pass on the left, after which it
>> returns to the main highway.
>>
>> Given that the passing_place tag defines the situation you describe,
>> and indeed was created to model it, I'm not sure modifying its
>> definition to include ways would be a good idea. In addition, the
>> term "passing" or, in the EU, "overtaking", implies that the passing
>> vehicle does so on the left (U.S.) while these turnouts are always on
>> the right. Hence my reluctance to redefine that tag.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 6:55 PM Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com
>> <mailto:61sundowner at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> On 04/09/18 21:04, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> 2018-09-04 12:42 GMT+02:00 Dave Swarthout
>>> <daveswarthout at gmail.com <mailto:daveswarthout at gmail.com>>:
>>>
>>>
>>> Summarizing recent comments:
>>> Martin wrote:
>>> > what’s wrong with passing place? Seems to describe the same thing
>>>
>>> I thought so too until I noticed that the Wiki says
>>> passing_place is used for nodes only, using logic that
>>> escapes me, so I began searching for another method. I also
>>> considered modifying that definition so it includes ways but
>>> was reluctant to start that battle even though that still
>>> seems a good solution.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I would be in favor of adding the possibility to tag
>>> highway=passing_place on ways, there is already a tiny fraction
>>> tagged on ways (although the percentage currently makes it clear
>>> they are outliers). There's a general problem with using nodes
>>> for features like these: they don't have a direction, so you
>>> can't state where the widening takes place.
>>
>> Passing places are not long.
>> Most of them are just long enough to squeeze in a car and caravan
>> ... just.
>> You are supposed to come to a complete stop to let others pass in
>> either direction.
>> They are usually on single lane, two way roads.
>>
>> So a passing place .. you have to stop in it. You cannot keep
>> moving as you would with any distance of extra lane.
>>
>>
>>
>>> For the lanes approach: I would only use this if the place has
>>> some length (more than 5-10 meters you may typically find on a
>>> track) AND if there are lane markings (general requirement for
>>> lanes).
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Martin
>>>
>>>
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>>
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>>
>> --
>> Dave Swarthout
>> Homer, Alaska
>> Chiang Mai, Thailand
>> Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
>>
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