[Tagging] Slow vehicle turnouts

Warin 61sundowner at gmail.com
Sat Sep 8 00:29:29 UTC 2018

If the short 'passing_place' is tagged the same as a longer lane .. then 
how is it distinguished?

You cannot count on the mapper to mark the length of it every time.
So a 100 meter one could have the same tagging as a 10 meter one. That 
is not good.

I think the present tag of passing_place needs to be retained with the 
present definition.

If the use of the lanes tag or a separate service road tag is not good 
enough for these longer 'turn outs' then there needs to be some new tag.

On 06/09/18 22:56, Tobias Wrede wrote:
> Hi,
> I've just come back from three weeks vacation in the Sierra Nevada 
> with an RV. I've used turnouts there extensively. Mostly, they were 
> long enough to me not having to stop while I let the traffic pass. But 
> there were also the occasional ones (marked) that were just a 10m 
> paved patch next to the normal lane.
> In Sweden they have a lot of 2+1 roads and they seem to become popular 
> with planners in Germany, too 
> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2%2B1_road). Basically, it's a 
> permanently alternating long turnout. :-) I would be overshooting to 
> explicitly mark every two lane bit as a turnout or passing lane.
> I favor the idea of marking turnouts, passing lanes and 2+1 roads all 
> the same by using the lanes tagging scheme. For explicit (short) 
> turnouts we might want to create a new value for turn:lanes=pass or 
> something like that.
> Tobi
> Am 05.09.2018 um 03:13 schrieb Dave Swarthout:
>> @Warin, Thanks for clearing up my confusion about passing places. 
>> These turnouts are definitely not the same. A vehicle should never 
>> stop in one. They are about 1/4 mile long and some but not all have 
>> painted lines to separate the highway proper from the turnout lanes. 
>> In the U.S., where we drive on the right, such lanes are always on 
>> the right-hand side of the highway, and although they aren't signed 
>> as one way, it's sensible to include that tag IMO. In practice, a 
>> slow-moving vehicle turns off the main highway, slows down enough to 
>> allow following vehicles time to pass on the left, after which it 
>> returns to the main highway.
>> Given that the passing_place tag defines the situation you describe, 
>> and indeed was created to model it, I'm not sure modifying its 
>> definition to include ways would be a good idea. In addition, the 
>> term "passing" or, in the EU, "overtaking", implies that the passing 
>> vehicle does so on the left (U.S.) while these turnouts are always on 
>> the right. Hence my reluctance to redefine that tag.
>> Dave
>> On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 6:55 PM Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com 
>> <mailto:61sundowner at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>     On 04/09/18 21:04, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
>>>     2018-09-04 12:42 GMT+02:00 Dave Swarthout
>>>     <daveswarthout at gmail.com <mailto:daveswarthout at gmail.com>>:
>>>         Summarizing recent comments:
>>>         Martin wrote:
>>>         > what’s wrong with passing place? Seems to describe the same thing
>>>         I thought so too until I noticed that the Wiki says
>>>         passing_place is used for nodes only, using logic that
>>>         escapes me, so I began searching for another method. I also
>>>         considered modifying that definition so it includes ways but
>>>         was reluctant to start that battle even though that still
>>>         seems a good solution.
>>>     I would be in favor of adding the possibility to tag
>>>     highway=passing_place on ways, there is already a tiny fraction
>>>     tagged on ways (although the percentage currently makes it clear
>>>     they are outliers). There's a general problem with using nodes
>>>     for features like these: they don't have a direction, so you
>>>     can't state where the widening takes place.
>>     Passing places are not long.
>>     Most of them are just long enough to squeeze in a car and caravan
>>     ... just.
>>     You are supposed to come to a complete stop to let others pass in
>>     either direction.
>>     They are usually on single lane, two way roads.
>>     So a passing place .. you have to stop in it. You cannot keep
>>     moving as you would with any distance of extra lane.
>>>     For the lanes approach: I would only use this if the place has
>>>     some length (more than 5-10 meters you may typically find on a
>>>     track) AND if there are lane markings (general requirement for
>>>     lanes).
>>>     Cheers,
>>>     Martin
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>> -- 
>> Dave Swarthout
>> Homer, Alaska
>> Chiang Mai, Thailand
>> Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
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