[Tagging] Slow vehicle turnouts
list at tobias-wrede.de
Mon Sep 10 18:30:13 UTC 2018
I would leave the short passing_place as is, i.e. the one that also
gives space to pass oncoming traffic. For the ones intended for letting
same direction traffic pass I would really not differentiate by short
(what is short?), long or alternating.
Am 08.09.2018 um 02:29 schrieb Warin:
> If the short 'passing_place' is tagged the same as a longer lane ..
> then how is it distinguished?
> You cannot count on the mapper to mark the length of it every time.
> So a 100 meter one could have the same tagging as a 10 meter one. That
> is not good.
> I think the present tag of passing_place needs to be retained with the
> present definition.
> If the use of the lanes tag or a separate service road tag is not good
> enough for these longer 'turn outs' then there needs to be some new tag.
> On 06/09/18 22:56, Tobias Wrede wrote:
>> I've just come back from three weeks vacation in the Sierra Nevada
>> with an RV. I've used turnouts there extensively. Mostly, they were
>> long enough to me not having to stop while I let the traffic pass.
>> But there were also the occasional ones (marked) that were just a 10m
>> paved patch next to the normal lane.
>> In Sweden they have a lot of 2+1 roads and they seem to become
>> popular with planners in Germany, too
>> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2%2B1_road). Basically, it's a
>> permanently alternating long turnout. :-) I would be overshooting to
>> explicitly mark every two lane bit as a turnout or passing lane.
>> I favor the idea of marking turnouts, passing lanes and 2+1 roads all
>> the same by using the lanes tagging scheme. For explicit (short)
>> turnouts we might want to create a new value for turn:lanes=pass or
>> something like that.
>> Am 05.09.2018 um 03:13 schrieb Dave Swarthout:
>>> @Warin, Thanks for clearing up my confusion about passing places.
>>> These turnouts are definitely not the same. A vehicle should never
>>> stop in one. They are about 1/4 mile long and some but not all have
>>> painted lines to separate the highway proper from the turnout lanes.
>>> In the U.S., where we drive on the right, such lanes are always on
>>> the right-hand side of the highway, and although they aren't signed
>>> as one way, it's sensible to include that tag IMO. In practice, a
>>> slow-moving vehicle turns off the main highway, slows down enough to
>>> allow following vehicles time to pass on the left, after which it
>>> returns to the main highway.
>>> Given that the passing_place tag defines the situation you describe,
>>> and indeed was created to model it, I'm not sure modifying its
>>> definition to include ways would be a good idea. In addition, the
>>> term "passing" or, in the EU, "overtaking", implies that the passing
>>> vehicle does so on the left (U.S.) while these turnouts are always
>>> on the right. Hence my reluctance to redefine that tag.
>>> On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 6:55 PM Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:61sundowner at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> On 04/09/18 21:04, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
>>>> 2018-09-04 12:42 GMT+02:00 Dave Swarthout
>>>> <daveswarthout at gmail.com <mailto:daveswarthout at gmail.com>>:
>>>> Summarizing recent comments:
>>>> Martin wrote:
>>>> > what’s wrong with passing place? Seems to describe the same thing
>>>> I thought so too until I noticed that the Wiki says
>>>> passing_place is used for nodes only, using logic that
>>>> escapes me, so I began searching for another method. I also
>>>> considered modifying that definition so it includes ways
>>>> but was reluctant to start that battle even though that
>>>> still seems a good solution.
>>>> I would be in favor of adding the possibility to tag
>>>> highway=passing_place on ways, there is already a tiny fraction
>>>> tagged on ways (although the percentage currently makes it
>>>> clear they are outliers). There's a general problem with using
>>>> nodes for features like these: they don't have a direction, so
>>>> you can't state where the widening takes place.
>>> Passing places are not long.
>>> Most of them are just long enough to squeeze in a car and
>>> caravan ... just.
>>> You are supposed to come to a complete stop to let others pass
>>> in either direction.
>>> They are usually on single lane, two way roads.
>>> So a passing place .. you have to stop in it. You cannot keep
>>> moving as you would with any distance of extra lane.
>>>> For the lanes approach: I would only use this if the place has
>>>> some length (more than 5-10 meters you may typically find on a
>>>> track) AND if there are lane markings (general requirement for
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>>> Dave Swarthout
>>> Homer, Alaska
>>> Chiang Mai, Thailand
>>> Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
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