[Tagging] Slow vehicle turnouts

Tobias Wrede list at tobias-wrede.de
Mon Sep 10 18:30:13 UTC 2018


I would leave the short passing_place as is, i.e. the one that also 
gives space to pass oncoming traffic. For the ones intended for letting 
same direction traffic pass I would really not differentiate by short 
(what is short?), long or alternating.

/Tobi

Am 08.09.2018 um 02:29 schrieb Warin:
> If the short 'passing_place' is tagged the same as a longer lane .. 
> then how is it distinguished?
>
> You cannot count on the mapper to mark the length of it every time.
> So a 100 meter one could have the same tagging as a 10 meter one. That 
> is not good.
>
> I think the present tag of passing_place needs to be retained with the 
> present definition.
>
> If the use of the lanes tag or a separate service road tag is not good 
> enough for these longer 'turn outs' then there needs to be some new tag.
>
>
> On 06/09/18 22:56, Tobias Wrede wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I've just come back from three weeks vacation in the Sierra Nevada 
>> with an RV. I've used turnouts there extensively. Mostly, they were 
>> long enough to me not having to stop while I let the traffic pass. 
>> But there were also the occasional ones (marked) that were just a 10m 
>> paved patch next to the normal lane.
>>
>> In Sweden they have a lot of 2+1 roads and they seem to become 
>> popular with planners in Germany, too 
>> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2%2B1_road). Basically, it's a 
>> permanently alternating long turnout. :-) I would be overshooting to 
>> explicitly mark every two lane bit as a turnout or passing lane.
>>
>> I favor the idea of marking turnouts, passing lanes and 2+1 roads all 
>> the same by using the lanes tagging scheme. For explicit (short) 
>> turnouts we might want to create a new value for turn:lanes=pass or 
>> something like that.
>>
>> Tobi
>>
>>
>> Am 05.09.2018 um 03:13 schrieb Dave Swarthout:
>>> @Warin, Thanks for clearing up my confusion about passing places. 
>>> These turnouts are definitely not the same. A vehicle should never 
>>> stop in one. They are about 1/4 mile long and some but not all have 
>>> painted lines to separate the highway proper from the turnout lanes. 
>>> In the U.S., where we drive on the right, such lanes are always on 
>>> the right-hand side of the highway, and although they aren't signed 
>>> as one way, it's sensible to include that tag IMO. In practice, a 
>>> slow-moving vehicle turns off the main highway, slows down enough to 
>>> allow following vehicles time to pass on the left, after which it 
>>> returns to the main highway.
>>>
>>> Given that the passing_place tag defines the situation you describe, 
>>> and indeed was created to model it, I'm not sure modifying its 
>>> definition to include ways would be a good idea. In addition, the 
>>> term "passing" or, in the EU, "overtaking", implies that the passing 
>>> vehicle does so on the left (U.S.) while these turnouts are always 
>>> on the right. Hence my reluctance to redefine that tag.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 6:55 PM Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com 
>>> <mailto:61sundowner at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     On 04/09/18 21:04, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     2018-09-04 12:42 GMT+02:00 Dave Swarthout
>>>>     <daveswarthout at gmail.com <mailto:daveswarthout at gmail.com>>:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         Summarizing recent comments:
>>>>         Martin wrote:
>>>>         > what’s wrong with passing place? Seems to describe the same thing
>>>>
>>>>         I thought so too until I noticed that the Wiki says
>>>>         passing_place is used for nodes only, using logic that
>>>>         escapes me, so I began searching for another method. I also
>>>>         considered modifying that definition so it includes ways
>>>>         but was reluctant to start that battle even though that
>>>>         still seems a good solution.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     I would be in favor of adding the possibility to tag
>>>>     highway=passing_place on ways, there is already a tiny fraction
>>>>     tagged on ways (although the percentage currently makes it
>>>>     clear they are outliers). There's a general problem with using
>>>>     nodes for features like these: they don't have a direction, so
>>>>     you can't state where the widening takes place.
>>>
>>>     Passing places are not long.
>>>     Most of them are just long enough to squeeze in a car and
>>>     caravan ... just.
>>>     You are supposed to come to a complete stop to let others pass
>>>     in either direction.
>>>     They are usually on single lane, two way roads.
>>>
>>>     So a passing place .. you have to stop in it. You cannot keep
>>>     moving as you would with any distance of extra lane.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>     For the lanes approach: I would only use this if the place has
>>>>     some length (more than 5-10 meters you may typically find on a
>>>>     track) AND if there are lane markings (general requirement for
>>>>     lanes).
>>>>
>>>>     Cheers,
>>>>     Martin
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Dave Swarthout
>>> Homer, Alaska
>>> Chiang Mai, Thailand
>>> Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
>>>
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>>
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