[Tagging] Slow vehicle turnouts

Jo winfixit at gmail.com
Thu Sep 13 16:53:05 UTC 2018


I have been ignoring bus bays for several years and I'm happy we now have a
way to tag them. These extra lanes are very similar, so I'd say that is the
way to go for mapping them. No need for a preset, you'll find that the
double split map mode in PT_Assistant is a lot more practical to split a
way in 2 places at once.

British English seems to use passing place. So what about?

passing_place=right / left / both

Where both is unlikely, of course.

Polyglot

Op do 13 sep. 2018 om 16:46 schreef Dave Swarthout <daveswarthout at gmail.com
>:

> Tod writes:
> >In California the narrow mountain roads will have “turn outs”. These are
> very short, basically just enough room for a >vehicle to pull over and stop
> to allow others to pass. These are signed in advance with something like
> “Turn out 500 ft >ahead”.
>
> These are tagged in OSM, according to the Wiki, as highway=passing_place
> and the use of the tag is restricted to nodes. The restriction is probably
> because those places are so short and nodes, except for the problem of
> directionality, as you and others point out, do the job well enough. But
> that tag won't work in my case because these are actual separate lanes with
> a significant length. Clearly, some sort of definitive tagging for ways is
> needed.
>
> Consequently, I've been ignoring turnouts in my own work although I've
> always felt they should be mapped. I wanted to get things right before
> settling on a scenario, writing a short JOSM preset to increase efficiency,
> and then proceeding to tag them.
>
> On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 9:15 PM Tod Fitch <tod at fitchdesign.com> wrote:
>
>> In California the narrow mountain roads will have “turn outs”. These are
>> very short, basically just enough room for a vehicle to pull over and stop
>> to allow others to pass. These are signed in advance with something like
>> “Turn out 500 ft ahead”.
>>
>> There are also “passing lane” signs for areas where an extra lane extends
>> long enough for slow vehicles to maintain their speed in the new right
>> lane. These are generally signed longer in advance, e.g. “passing lane 1
>> mi”.
>>
>> And on long grades like on the “grapevine” on I-5 between Bakersfield
>> there are slow vehicle lanes marked off with a solid white line that extend
>> for the full length of both up and down grades that are too steep for a
>> loaded HGV to handle at the normal flat land speed limit. All the ones I
>> can think of have reduced HGV speed limits.
>>
>> Reading through this discussion I have the feeling that some areas have
>> one or another of these features but not all three and are somehow assuming
>> that what they are familiar with covers all the cases. For myself, I add
>> slow vehicle lanes and passing lanes to the roadway along with any other
>> tagging (maxspeed:hgv, change:lanes, etc.) And for turn outs, I either
>> ignore them or put a node. Problem with a node is that the turn out is for
>> one direction of travel and nodes are not good for that.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Tod
>>
>> On Sep 13, 2018, at 7:00 AM, Kevin <ksamples at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Here in Georgia (USA) I believe we call these types of lanes "passing
>> lanes".  But that's usually only in reference to the left lane.  You
>> generally stay to the right except to pass.
>>
>> https://www.dawsonnews.com/local/gdot-remove-hwy-53-passing-lane/
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 6:21 PM, Dave Swarthout <daveswarthout at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> >You say "turnout".  But physically, is it just an additional lane that
>>> >appears, and (more or less) one is obligated to move right one lane into
>>> >it if you're in the way?
>>>
>>> Exactly. I explained this several posts ago. It is an additional lane,
>>> running for perhaps a quarter mile, sometimes longer, that any vehicle
>>> which is holding back some number of other vehicles is obligated to use so
>>> that those following vehicles may pass. The reason I used the term
>>> "turnout" is because the signage erected by the Alaska DOT uses that term,
>>> as in, "Slow Vehicle Turnout Ahead 1500 feet".
>>>
>>> I see polyglot is ready to add some sort of processing to JOSM's
>>> PT_Assistant plugin if only we can decide what to call such lanes in OSM. I
>>> think the term slow_vehicle would work just fine.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 12:11 AM Jo <winfixit at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> A few months ago bus_bay=left|right|both was voted. For me this is
>>>> similar, albeit over a longer distance.
>>>>
>>>> extra_lane_for_slow_moving_traffic_to_compulsory_halt_to_let_other_traffic_pass_by=left|right|both
>>>> ?
>>>>
>>>> If you figure out which tag to use, we'll add it to the double split
>>>> map mode of JOSM's PT_Assistant plugin.
>>>>
>>>> Polyglot
>>>>
>>>> Op wo 12 sep. 2018 om 18:49 schreef Greg Troxel <gdt at lexort.com>:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> > Again, I emphasize, this is not a crawler lane or a hill climbing
>>>>> lane. It
>>>>> > is a lane into which one pulls over to allow faster moving traffic
>>>>> to pass.
>>>>> > In fact, Alaskan law demands that any vehicle being followed by 5
>>>>> vehicles
>>>>> > must, at the first opportunity, allow those vehicles to pass. I doubt
>>>>> > anyone has ever been ticketed for this offense but nevertheless, the
>>>>> law
>>>>> > exists. Alaskan highways also have hill climbing lanes that are
>>>>> signed
>>>>> > "keep right except to pass". Those lanes are not the same as this
>>>>> one.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry, didn't get that this is not climbing lane (my fault).   In New
>>>>> England, extra lanes that one would associate with "slow vehicle" are
>>>>> 99% on hills.
>>>>>
>>>>> > Perhaps "slow_moving" isn't the best term for this sort of highway
>>>>> turnout
>>>>> > but it does the job.
>>>>>
>>>>> You say "turnout".  But physically, is it just an additional lane that
>>>>> appears, and (more or less) one is obligated to move right one lane
>>>>> into
>>>>> it if you're in the way?
>>>>>
>>>>> Do any routers do anything?  An example of how the data would be used,
>>>>> or how you think it would be used in an ideal future might be
>>>>> illuminaing.   Perhaps one's car computer could notice from forward
>>>>> radar that there is obstructing traffic and query osmand and give you a
>>>>> notification that the road becomes multilane in some distance, so you
>>>>> can get ready to blink to get the obstructor to move over if they stay
>>>>> left?   In that case, I wonder about the difference between a change to
>>>>> two lanes (perhaps because the row is wide enough and the long-term
>>>>> plan
>>>>> is 2) and a specific place like you describe.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Tagging mailing list
>>>>> Tagging at openstreetmap.org
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dave Swarthout
>>> Homer, Alaska
>>> Chiang Mai, Thailand
>>> Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
>>>
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>>> Tagging mailing list
>>> Tagging at openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>>
>>>
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>>
>
> --
> Dave Swarthout
> Homer, Alaska
> Chiang Mai, Thailand
> Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
> _______________________________________________
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>
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