[Tagging] Slow vehicle turnouts
daveswarthout at gmail.com
Thu Sep 13 14:45:19 UTC 2018
>In California the narrow mountain roads will have “turn outs”. These are
very short, basically just enough room for a >vehicle to pull over and stop
to allow others to pass. These are signed in advance with something like
“Turn out 500 ft >ahead”.
These are tagged in OSM, according to the Wiki, as highway=passing_place
and the use of the tag is restricted to nodes. The restriction is probably
because those places are so short and nodes, except for the problem of
directionality, as you and others point out, do the job well enough. But
that tag won't work in my case because these are actual separate lanes with
a significant length. Clearly, some sort of definitive tagging for ways is
Consequently, I've been ignoring turnouts in my own work although I've
always felt they should be mapped. I wanted to get things right before
settling on a scenario, writing a short JOSM preset to increase efficiency,
and then proceeding to tag them.
On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 9:15 PM Tod Fitch <tod at fitchdesign.com> wrote:
> In California the narrow mountain roads will have “turn outs”. These are
> very short, basically just enough room for a vehicle to pull over and stop
> to allow others to pass. These are signed in advance with something like
> “Turn out 500 ft ahead”.
> There are also “passing lane” signs for areas where an extra lane extends
> long enough for slow vehicles to maintain their speed in the new right
> lane. These are generally signed longer in advance, e.g. “passing lane 1
> And on long grades like on the “grapevine” on I-5 between Bakersfield
> there are slow vehicle lanes marked off with a solid white line that extend
> for the full length of both up and down grades that are too steep for a
> loaded HGV to handle at the normal flat land speed limit. All the ones I
> can think of have reduced HGV speed limits.
> Reading through this discussion I have the feeling that some areas have
> one or another of these features but not all three and are somehow assuming
> that what they are familiar with covers all the cases. For myself, I add
> slow vehicle lanes and passing lanes to the roadway along with any other
> tagging (maxspeed:hgv, change:lanes, etc.) And for turn outs, I either
> ignore them or put a node. Problem with a node is that the turn out is for
> one direction of travel and nodes are not good for that.
> On Sep 13, 2018, at 7:00 AM, Kevin <ksamples at gmail.com> wrote:
> Here in Georgia (USA) I believe we call these types of lanes "passing
> lanes". But that's usually only in reference to the left lane. You
> generally stay to the right except to pass.
> On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 6:21 PM, Dave Swarthout <daveswarthout at gmail.com>
>> >You say "turnout". But physically, is it just an additional lane that
>> >appears, and (more or less) one is obligated to move right one lane into
>> >it if you're in the way?
>> Exactly. I explained this several posts ago. It is an additional lane,
>> running for perhaps a quarter mile, sometimes longer, that any vehicle
>> which is holding back some number of other vehicles is obligated to use so
>> that those following vehicles may pass. The reason I used the term
>> "turnout" is because the signage erected by the Alaska DOT uses that term,
>> as in, "Slow Vehicle Turnout Ahead 1500 feet".
>> I see polyglot is ready to add some sort of processing to JOSM's
>> PT_Assistant plugin if only we can decide what to call such lanes in OSM. I
>> think the term slow_vehicle would work just fine.
>> On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 12:11 AM Jo <winfixit at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> A few months ago bus_bay=left|right|both was voted. For me this is
>>> similar, albeit over a longer distance.
>>> If you figure out which tag to use, we'll add it to the double split map
>>> mode of JOSM's PT_Assistant plugin.
>>> Op wo 12 sep. 2018 om 18:49 schreef Greg Troxel <gdt at lexort.com>:
>>>> > Again, I emphasize, this is not a crawler lane or a hill climbing
>>>> lane. It
>>>> > is a lane into which one pulls over to allow faster moving traffic to
>>>> > In fact, Alaskan law demands that any vehicle being followed by 5
>>>> > must, at the first opportunity, allow those vehicles to pass. I doubt
>>>> > anyone has ever been ticketed for this offense but nevertheless, the
>>>> > exists. Alaskan highways also have hill climbing lanes that are signed
>>>> > "keep right except to pass". Those lanes are not the same as this one.
>>>> Sorry, didn't get that this is not climbing lane (my fault). In New
>>>> England, extra lanes that one would associate with "slow vehicle" are
>>>> 99% on hills.
>>>> > Perhaps "slow_moving" isn't the best term for this sort of highway
>>>> > but it does the job.
>>>> You say "turnout". But physically, is it just an additional lane that
>>>> appears, and (more or less) one is obligated to move right one lane into
>>>> it if you're in the way?
>>>> Do any routers do anything? An example of how the data would be used,
>>>> or how you think it would be used in an ideal future might be
>>>> illuminaing. Perhaps one's car computer could notice from forward
>>>> radar that there is obstructing traffic and query osmand and give you a
>>>> notification that the road becomes multilane in some distance, so you
>>>> can get ready to blink to get the obstructor to move over if they stay
>>>> left? In that case, I wonder about the difference between a change to
>>>> two lanes (perhaps because the row is wide enough and the long-term plan
>>>> is 2) and a specific place like you describe.
>>>> Tagging mailing list
>>>> Tagging at openstreetmap.org
>> Dave Swarthout
>> Homer, Alaska
>> Chiang Mai, Thailand
>> Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
>> Tagging mailing list
>> Tagging at openstreetmap.org
> Tagging mailing list
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Chiang Mai, Thailand
Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
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