[Tagging] Draft Proposal: Default Langauge Format

Joseph Eisenberg joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com
Thu Sep 27 01:09:05 UTC 2018

The Proposal page lists a couple of other reasons under "rational:"

*1), 2)* Similar to your points a), and d)

*3)* It is not possible for renderers to properly render bilingual names
when one of the languages should be written in different directions

*4)* Localized and personalized maps, such as those used on smartphone apps
or those optimized for a certain language, cannot show the user's preferred
language as well as the locally preferred name. For example, the French map
style currently renders name:fr
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name>=* when available. But this
loses the locally used name, which is likely to be found on signs, reducing
the utility of the map for orientation and routing. If the map attempts to
display both name:fr <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name>=* and
name <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name>=* together, this will
lead to rendering the French name twice, when French is included in the name
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name>=*, for example in Morocco or
for mountains on the border with Italy. (See the table below for examples,
in the third column)

*5)* [Similar to b) and d]

On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 1:48 AM Wolfgang Zenker <wolfgang at lyxys.ka.sub.org>

> * Christoph Hormann <osm at imagico.de> [180926 17:53]:
> > On Wednesday 26 September 2018, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> >> On 26.09.2018 16:14, Christoph Hormann wrote:
> >>> Also in Germany we have features with no German name (most notably
> >>> probably in regions with significant minority languages but also
> >>> for example some English shop names, Italian restaurant names etc.)
> >> You are not *really* advocating that when passign an Italian
> >> restaurant called "O sole mio" I am expected to tag this with name:it
> >> and not give it a proper name tag, are you? Because then I'll
> >> promptly point you to a series of places that have a name the
> >> language of which is not discernible...
> > Yes, indicating that the name of an Italian restaurant in Germany is in
> > Italian can be fairly useful [..]
> > Note nothing terribly bad would happen for most applications if someone
> > would incorrectly tag an Italian restaurant name as a German name of
> > course.
> > Names in a non-discernible language have so far not been discussed.  I
> > would need to see some examples for this to form an opinion on the
> > matter.
> >>> The whole point of a concept like the one proposed here is to have
> >>> a unified system that transparently covers all cases
> >> Yes. The unified system goes as follows:
> >> "If the default language of the smallest admin boundary enclosing
> >> your feature is xx, treat any name tag you encounter as if it was a
> >> name:xx tag."
> > That would change the meaning of the name tag which is currently "the
> > locally used name or names in some combination" into something
> > different.  This seems very unlikely to happen for a tag with such
> > widespread use.  What you seem to be saying is that this already
> > happens to be the meaning of the name tag in Germany for >90 percent of
> > the names so you don't want the inconvenience of changing it for either
> > the few percent where it is not or to ensure a common tagging system
> > with the rest of the world where this is often much more widely not the
> > case.
> > I see your point but as said this would defeat the whole purpose of the
> > idea and would further reduce the chances of it getting widely
> > implemented.  [..]
> it appears to me that before discussing possible solutions we should
> better agree on what the problem is. So far I see several related but
> different problems mixed into one and consequently no possible agreement
> on the solution.
> The problems I have picked up from the discussion:
> a) as a data consumer I want to know the language(s) for a given name tag
> b) as a data consumer and as a mapper I want to know which language(s)
>    is/are commonly spoken in a place
> c) as a data consumer and as a mapper I want to know which language(s)
>    is/are ususally used on name signs in a place
> d) If there are names in multiple languages combined to form the name
>    tag in case a, I want to know how to split a given value into the
>    component languages.
> e) If names in multiple languages are used together in case c, I want to
>    know how to construct the name tag from the component name:xx values.
> f... all the points I have missed/forgotten/ignored/...
> Wolfgang
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