[Tagging] Rethinking Map Features

Joseph Eisenberg joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com
Sun Aug 4 06:03:44 UTC 2019

So far, I've found it very difficult to create and edit new wikibase
entries. I don't think it will be easier for Indonesian mappers to
create a wikibase entry for every Map Features entry, rather than
creating a stub page with a description.

The advantage of translating wiki pages for each features is that then
there is a human-readable page which can be updated and expanded over
time, and also it's clear where the list of feature descriptions are
coming from.

If you want everyone to create wikibase entries instead, there needs
to be a much easier, friendlier interface, available in all languages,
and I think such a major change should be discussed and be implemented
only if there is consensus that this would be a clear improvement for
most language communities.

On 8/4/19, Yuri Astrakhan <yuriastrakhan at gmail.com> wrote:
> The biggest issue with using Lua/Server side scripting with large lists is
> that every single data item used on a wiki page requires a separate SQL
> query (or even multiple ones), due to how mediawiki + wikibase is
> implemented.  On the other hand, relying on TagInfo has some shortcomings -
> TagInfo does not (yet) understand data items, relying on its own wiki page
> parser, it is very fixed in a way it can present information, and every
> wiki page view also uses makes 1 or more external call to taginfo (higher
> chance of something going down).
> There is a popular middle ground that can solve it for us -- very flexible,
> highly performant, uses a common data source (data items), and relies on a
> single system.  Essentially it is a bot-updated wiki markup:
> * an editor adds a special template at the top of a wiki page, where they
> specify a SPARQL query for the data they want - i.e. "find all
> label+description+image of data items, whose type is a 'tag' and whose key
> is 'denomination'".  A bot would run that query on occasion (e.g. once a
> day), and append query results to that same page after the template.  Thus,
> the result becomes a regular wiki markup, without any significant server
> costs.  See https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Template:Wikidata_list
> The PROs:
> * The bot can run at any moment, by anyone, to update the data
> * In the worst case of a bot completely dying, wiki markup could be edited
> by hand until the bot is fixed
> * very flexible - a complex query could get any data needed for the output,
> and the output is templated to show in any kind of a list/table format.
> CONs:
> * every list update is essentially a wiki page edit, slowly increasing
> history. This is not that big of a deal because size wise the growth is
> small and has very little performance impact, plus it makes it possible to
> track changes with time.
> On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 5:25 PM Andrew Hain <andrewhainosm at hotmail.co.uk>
> wrote:
>> Now the wiki has data items and scripting in Lua I have been wondering
>> whether they are a useful alternative to Taginfo-driven lists.
>> Advantages of server scripts:
>>    1. Descriptions can be generated from data items, tharefore they can
>>    be in a language where there is no long form documentation for the
>> key.
>>    This resolves the issues that have limited use of taglists in
>> languages
>>    other than English because descriptions can be rolled out quickly and
>> some
>>    can be copied from the old map features templates.
>>    2. Tables at the top of pages are visible immediately,
>>    3. A successful connection to tagindo.openstreetmap.org is
>> unnecessary.
>> Advantages of taglists driven by Taginfo:
>>    1. The technology aleady exists and can be rolled out.
>>    2. Separate scripts avoid overloading the server (Map Features in
>>    Polish, Ukrainian and Japanese hits wiki limits).
>>    3. The web scripts are free-standing and can be hosted on another
>>    website outside the wiki,
>> (crossposted from
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Taginfo/Taglists#Server_scripts_as_alternative_taglists
>> )
>> --
>> Andrew
>> Talk:Taginfo/Taglists - OpenStreetMap Wiki
>> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Taginfo/Taglists#Server_scripts_as_alternative_taglists>
>> Languages. This is a very cool feature! One question: Could the template
>> get the langugage automatically? I know this is done on some templates
>> (e.g. Template:Tag).-- Jojo4u 17:20, 20 August 2015 (UTC) . I am not a
>> template wizard.
>> wiki.openstreetmap.org
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Joseph Eisenberg <joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* 02 August 2019 14:22
>> *To:* Tag discussion, strategy and related tools <
>> tagging at openstreetmap.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Tagging] Rethinking Map Features
>> Andrew,
>> I now think it is a good idea to switch to taglists for all of the Map
>> Feature page templates. It will make it much easier to keep the pages
>> consistent and to a reasonable length if all of the descriptions are
>> pulled from the wiki pages directly (just as is done for descriptions
>> used by Taginfo).
>> This just means that any deprecated or discouraged tags which are
>> currently "strikethrough" on Map Features will need something in the
>> description that mentions that they are discouraged. This is a good
>> idea anyway, so that the documentation is consistent.
>> Joseph
>> On 7/7/19, Andrew Hain <andrewhainosm at hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> > I have been working on a scheme to improve the cross-language quality
>> > of
>> Map
>> > Features.
>> > [
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Map_Features#Reimagining_Map_Features
>> ]
>> >
>> > Of course the page may deserve a bigger or deeper rethink.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Andrew
>> > Talk:Map Features - OpenStreetMap
>> > Wiki<
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Map_Features#Reimagining_Map_Features
>> >
>> > amenity=school rendering colour. amenity=school is displayed in the
>> > page
>> as
>> > a light-purple area for ways, whereas mapnik renders them as a pale
>> yellow
>> > colour
>> > wiki.openstreetmap.org
>> >
>> >
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