[Tagging] Rethinking Map Features

Joseph Eisenberg joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com
Mon Aug 5 13:59:14 UTC 2019

Thanks, I've got it now.

The problem with the wikibase data item "labels": if you go to add the
description in another language for a recently created wiki page, the
top left of the page has a very large, gray text heading like "No
Label Defined" (but in Indonesian, or Spanish, etc), which suggests
that something is missing.

I suspect this happens because the English "label" field may not have
been created in the data item?

Also, when adding the description, the next field to the left is the
blank label field, with grayed-out text "No Label Found". It's quite
tempting to fill this in. Do we really want wiki users to feel they
should add translations for the "key" and "value" of each tag?

On 8/5/19, Yuri Astrakhan <yuriastrakhan at gmail.com> wrote:
> Joseph, you don't need to use preferences - just click the language
> switcher at the very top of the page, and you only need to switch to
> Indonesian and back once -- the interface will always offer both choices to
> fill out.  Please see the video, and let me know if what you see is
> different. You might be using mobile version of the site?
> Filling it out labels in every language is a bit silly - there are
> thousands of languages, why would we want to store identical information in
> every one of them, when the system automatically does fallback to English?
> I could create some sort of a javascript gadget that hides the label column
> when the item type is a key/value/relation/relation role (multilingual
> labels are still useful for other item types), but some people have already
> added some alternative language-specific labels, essentially localizing
> keys - not sure if we should just hide those.  BTW, if anyone wants to hack
> on it (I'm looking at you Minh :)), it would be awesome!  Or at least we
> should maybe give a warning when user tries to add a label identical to
> English?
> Every wiki page, including the data items have a "history" tab at the top
> that will show every edit done to that page.
> On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 12:17 PM Joseph Eisenberg
> <joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Thanks, yes, changing the language under “preferences” for the wiki
>> works,
>> though it’s a little annoying.
>> You should set the label field for all languages to the key=value or
>> remove this field and display the key=value at the top of the page
>> anyway.
>> It’s quite distracting Now.
>> Is there a way to see the wikibase data item history? One big concern I
>> have is that it won’t be easy to see when something is changed. Can you
>> get
>> notified if someone changes a description?
>> Joseph
>> On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 1:05 AM Yuri Astrakhan <yuriastrakhan at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> P.S. I made a short video on how to add descriptions and translations
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI1NDD4MtC4
>>> On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 11:56 AM Yuri Astrakhan <yuriastrakhan at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Joseph, before you click "edit description", change your language at
>>>> the
>>>> top of the wiki page (make sure you are logged in.  Also, if you change
>>>> the
>>>> language a few times to the ones you know, e.g. to Indonesian, to
>>>> Spanish,
>>>> and then to English, I think interface will always offer you to enter
>>>> description in the last few you had picked.
>>>> Thanks for adding translations!
>>>> On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 11:40 AM Joseph Eisenberg <
>>>> joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> You're right, I was a little confused. Almost all the features on Map
>>>>> Features have a wiki page (and those that don't should get a page or
>>>>> more likely be removed), so I understand that they have an OSM
>>>>> wikibase entry, now, and creating the data item isn't an issue.
>>>>> But I still can't figure out how to add description in another
>>>>> language?
>>>>> I tried to get the Indonesian translation by:
>>>>> 1) Open the English wiki page (eg from the link on Map Features in
>>>>> this
>>>>> case)
>>>>> 2) Click on the little pencil to edit the OSM wikibase data item
>>>>> (which I can't see, because I have images disabled, but I just hunt
>>>>> around...)
>>>>> 3) Click on "edit" next to description
>>>>> 4) Click "all entered languages" - wait, how do I add Indonesian?
>>>>> ?
>>>>> Maybe I don't see Indonesian because I'm using a satellite internet
>>>>> connection from Australia and I haven't edited Indonesian before. I
>>>>> try clicking on "Configure" next to "In more languages"
>>>>> I don't see Indonesian there either. So perhaps I have to make a new
>>>>> wikibase entry for my language? Unfortunately I don't see a link to
>>>>> make a new wikibase item.
>>>>> Ok, let's try again with Spanish (Español), that's on the list...
>>>>> I still can't figure it out. How do I add a description in another
>>>>> language?
>>>>> Fortunately I can just make a stub wiki page by:
>>>>> 1) Open the English language page
>>>>> 2) Click on edit
>>>>> 3) Copy the url, add "id:" in front of the page name
>>>>> 4) Copy and paste the ValueDescription / KeyDescription box content
>>>>> 5) Edit the description to Indonesian
>>>>> It looks like that will still be fewer clicks and fewer mouse strokes
>>>>> than editing the OSM wikibase data items, and has the benefit of
>>>>> creating a visible wiki page rather than just editing an obscure data
>>>>> item.
>>>>> Joseph
>>>>> On 8/4/19, Yuri Astrakhan <yuriastrakhan at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> > Joseph, could you clarify what you mean by "Map Features entry" ?
>>>>> > If
>>>>> you
>>>>> > only refer to keys/tags/relations/relation roles, than those things
>>>>> are
>>>>> > automatically created -- an editor only needs to translate them.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I do agree that if we want to store more diverse data items, we need
>>>>> > specialized UI, at least for the initial item creation. Luckily,
>>>>> there is a
>>>>> > large Wikidata community that has already done many such custom UIs.
>>>>> For
>>>>> > example, Wikidata now stores language data (all lexems), and there
>>>>> > is
>>>>> a
>>>>> > community-created tool to add such words --
>>>>> > https://tools.wmflabs.org/lexeme-forms/  (I'm not sure if this tool
>>>>> checks
>>>>> > for duplicates, please check first if you want to add new data).
>>>>> There are
>>>>> > many other tools we can model after.  Best thing -- those tools
>>>>> > don't
>>>>> have
>>>>> > to be part of the wiki, but can reside anywhere else, and could be
>>>>> > in
>>>>> pure
>>>>> > client-side JavaScript.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 2:05 AM Joseph Eisenberg
>>>>> > <joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com>
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> So far, I've found it very difficult to create and edit new
>>>>> >> wikibase
>>>>> >> entries. I don't think it will be easier for Indonesian mappers to
>>>>> >> create a wikibase entry for every Map Features entry, rather than
>>>>> >> creating a stub page with a description.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> The advantage of translating wiki pages for each features is that
>>>>> then
>>>>> >> there is a human-readable page which can be updated and expanded
>>>>> >> over
>>>>> >> time, and also it's clear where the list of feature descriptions
>>>>> >> are
>>>>> >> coming from.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> If you want everyone to create wikibase entries instead, there
>>>>> >> needs
>>>>> >> to be a much easier, friendlier interface, available in all
>>>>> languages,
>>>>> >> and I think such a major change should be discussed and be
>>>>> implemented
>>>>> >> only if there is consensus that this would be a clear improvement
>>>>> >> for
>>>>> >> most language communities.
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