[Tagging] Roles of route members (was: Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, ...)

Sarah Hoffmann lonvia at denofr.de
Thu Aug 15 11:54:23 UTC 2019


Hi,

(making this a new topic)

On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 11:56:30AM +0200, Peter Elderson wrote:
> I strongly prefer to have one relation for the main route, and separate relations for alternatives. Put those together in a relation with roles for the member relations, not for individual ways. So the lowest level always contains only ways, the higher level contains only relations. 

Using subrelations is not consistent with the current use of forward/backward roles.
I'd consider alternatives, excursions and access routes to be equivalent
to those.

> The ways in the main relation should form one continuous sorted (sortable) route, which data users can extract or link to for navigation or planner software.

There is relatively few software that can handle hierarchic relations.
One could argue that putting alternatives in separate relations makes
it actually harder to access those.

In the end, it doesn't really matter if you put the role on way or
relation members. I'd just allow both. (Although I agree that ways and
relation member shouldn't be mixed in a single relation.)

The more important part is to agree on a couple of roles so that
mappers and software know what to use.

I did a quick count and that's what is in use most currently for roles
on hiking routes:

alternatives:  alternative(117), alternate(105)
side paths:    excursion(166)
access paths:  link(85)

and for cycling:

alternatives:  alternative(74), alternate(64)
side paths:    detour(25)
access paths:  link(78), connection(52)

NB: They are used almost exclusively on way members.

Sarah

> 
> Note that rendering routes is not that critical, but data use is increasingly important.
> 
> Fr gr Peter Elderson
> 
> > Op 15 aug. 2019 om 09:35 heeft Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com> het volgende geschreven:
> > 
> >> On 15/08/19 17:00, Peter Elderson wrote:
> >> Where/to what exactly do you apply the role?
> > 
> > In the relation.
> > 
> > See https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1388126
> > 
> > Here the 'normal' members are simple ways with no role, these form the route itself.
> > 
> > Those that have a relationship role of 'alternate' in this instance are relations themselves but the could be more simple ways.
> > These form alternate routes to the main route.
> > They could be for any number of reasons - hight tides or flooded rivers.
> > In this case the Hornsby original goes through a firing range, Little Wobbly is a cheaper alternative to a private water taxi,
> > the other I am not certain of, possibly an 'access tack' from a train station - I would have to look.
> > 
> > Note I am not the author here of 'alternate', but I have done some work on the OSM route.
> > 
> >> 
> >> Mvg Peter Elderson
> >> 
> >>> Op 15 aug. 2019 om 01:20 heeft Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com> het volgende geschreven:
> >>> 
> >>> It would be usefull to document the method of  including alternate, side trips and access tracks to these routes.
> >>> 
> >>> At the moment I and others are using the role 'alternate' for track alternative paths.
> >>> 
> >>> For 'side trips' (short paths to features of interest) possibly the role 'side_trip'?
> >>> 
> >>> For 'access tracks' (paths from common and signed places that leas to teh main track) possibly the role 'access_track'?
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>>> On 13/08/19 18:50, s8evq wrote:
> >>>> Hello everyone,
> >>>> 
> >>>> On the discussion page of the wiki entry Hiking (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Hiking#Synchronize_wiki_page_Hiking.2C_Walking_Routes.2C_route.3Dhiking_and_route.3Dfoot_on_tagging_scheme.) I have started a topic, but with little response so far. That's why I come here, before proceeding.
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> Currently, there are four tagging scheme tables describing how walking (or hiking) routes should be tagged.
> >>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Hiking
> >>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Walking_Routes
> >>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:route%3Dhiking
> >>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:route%3Dfoot
> >>>> 
> >>>> Would it not be easier and more clear if we just keep one, and add a link to it in the others?
> >>>> 
> >>>> Last month, I already started harmonizing these four tagging scheme tables. I changed the order, added some missing tags, adjusted the explanation etc... In my view, I only had to do minor edits. For those interested, here are my edits:
> >>>> 
> >>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Hiking&type=revision&diff=1878387&oldid=1873054
> >>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Walking_Routes&type=revision&diff=1881156&oldid=1879580
> >>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag%3Aroute%3Dhiking&type=revision&diff=1878383&oldid=1853636
> >>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag%3Aroute%3Dfoot&type=revision&diff=1878384&oldid=1853797
> >>>> 
> >>>> So these four tagging scheme tables are now almost 100% the same.
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> My idea was to keep the tagging scheme table on one of the wiki pages, and put a link to it on the three other pages. I would like to have broader support before going further.
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> Of course, we can discuss about the content of the tagging scheme. But that's irrelevant to my question about the organization of the wiki page.
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> 
> > 
> > 
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