[Tagging] Roles of route members (was: Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, ...)

Peter Elderson pelderson at gmail.com
Fri Aug 16 10:09:48 UTC 2019

Op vr 16 aug. 2019 om 10:59 schreef Andy Townsend <ajt1047 at gmail.com>:

> On 16/08/2019 08:50, Peter Elderson wrote:
> > Josm of course. Is there another relation editor that can handle large
> nested route relations spanning up to say 4000 Km?
> P2 can, at least.  Other people seem to suggest that iD does a
> reasonable job now too.

Sorry to disagree. P2 and ID are aware of relations and can do a few basic
things like adding/removing a way and shifting a way up and down, in one
relation at a time. If you maintain a lot of long distance routes, that is
painfully inadequate. Even more so if you try to do it in a way that
prepares the relations for data users, currently meaning linear and gapless
gpx-es for use in navigation software, elevation profiles, and trip
planners. You need validation, gap detection, multiple relation windows
with shifting between windows, sorting, jump to first/last member,
direction reverse, download all members even those not in the bbox, ...

> The more interesting question, though, is "why do you want walking route
> relations to be sorted".  The point that's already been made about
> routes that use the same way twice is a valid one, but almost never
> applies to walking route relations.  What are you trying to do with e.g.
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1976184 (the part of E2* that
> runs through Yorkshire) if it's not sorted?
> If it's not sorted: display only. If I want to walk it, I want to use
OsmAnd navigation and or Garmin navigation. OsmAnd and Garmin currently
cannot use the relation directly, so I have to use a gpx, and they
recalculate the route for navigation. The gpx needs to be continous, sorted
and gapless, or it won't work. Overpass and Waymarkedtrails can export to a
routable gpx, if the relation is one sorted and continous chain of ways.
So before exporting, I use JOSM relation editor, load the entire thing,
solve all gaps en remove duplications, move alternatives one or more
separate relations, then export the main route as gpx.

I also notify the operator of the website
so he can use the export for his trip planner. If he could depend on routes
to be flawless in OSM he could connect directly to it for automatic
periodical refresh.

If the route is on that planner, I would probably use that first to plan
the trip and route according to train and bus stations, hotels & B&B's, and
places on the way, then export the trip gpx from that planner.

I will actually have a look at the E2 Yorkshire thing after lunch. I can
repair technical problems. If I need local survey I can probably not fix it
completely. Have to look at the history as well, don't want to offend
mappers over there with foreign ideas.

Best Regards,
> Andy
> * There are actually many other things wrong with that relation. It's
> not signed, so in a since here it "does not exist" but at the very least
> it should be tagged as such.  Also it's actually defined here in terms
> of the Wolds Way (which is signed), not in terms of individual paths.  I
> also doubt that the LDWA is in any sense an "operator".
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