[Tagging] Roles of route members (was: Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, ...)

Warin 61sundowner at gmail.com
Tue Aug 20 10:15:24 UTC 2019

On 20/08/19 18:38, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
> Kevin Kenny wrote:
>> There's also something to be said for using the ugly editors to
>> prove the concept, because at this point, we don't yet know how
>> to do everything, much less how to make it novice-friendly! The
>> exception is simple linear routes, and Sarah or I can give you
>> algorithms - or at least heuristics - for maintaining sort order
>> on those.
> I have an algorithm like that too - it skeletonises dual carriageways and
> roundabouts, hops over small jumps, and so on. But that's very different
> from the steps to implement in an online editor, which has many more
> constraints. (P2 doesn't have access to the full set of JTS/PostGIS tools,
> for example!) _If_ the issues can be identified clearly and the realistic
> steps to fix them enumerated, then we're getting somewhere.
>> I do want editors minimally to observe the 'don't break the route'
>> principle. About 80% of the broken-route problem can be solved
>> simply by, "when splitting a way, both the pieces become members
>> of any route relations in which the original way appeared, with the
>> same role if one is specified, preferably preserving continuity if
>> either or both endpoints was shared with the neighbouring way
>> in the relation." At least iD, Meerkartor and JOSM all do that.
> As does P2, I believe (I didn't write that bit of code) - iD's code might
> actually be based on P2's. That does make me wonder how much of a problem
> this is in reality if the four major desktop editors already support it.

I don't know.

I think some separate a way and insert a new roundabout .. the new roundabout does not go into the relations.

I have had some that were broken by the additions of turn restrictions. Never bothered to find out what they did, just fixed them and got on with life.
Usually they are iD edits, I suspect most people use iD, particularly those just starting out so it is no real guide as to potential iD problems.

>> For what it's worth, I think that the "route editing is complex"
>> problem partly drives the 'startled warthog' and '1980s throwback'
>> issues. In my experience, newer and prettier UI's try so very hard
>> to be pretty and novice-friendly that in many cases, they simply
>> reach a ceiling of complexity beyond which they can't cope or
>> become an obstacle to the power user.
> Generally I tend to think that a data model that can't be edited with a
> simple UI is a bad data model; and that "power users" are a curse on
> Wikipedia and rapidly becoming the same in OSM, especially when their main
> role is to generate abstruse content as self-gratification but which no-one
> will ever actually consume. But that's just me being a grumpy old man too.
> :)

That is an expanding club. Generally life membership is granted.

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